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Draft minutes of TAG telcon 2012-03-01

From: Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 15:35:06 +0000
To: www-tag@w3.org
Message-ID: <f5b399nawnp.fsf@calexico.inf.ed.ac.uk>
On the web at

  http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html

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ht
----------------------
                                   - DRAFT -

                                   TAG telcon

01 Mar 2012

   [2]Agenda

   See also: [3]IRC log

Attendees

   Present
          Robin Berjon, Yves Lafon, Peter Linss, Ashok Malhotra, Larry
          Masinter, Noah Mendelsohn, Jonathan Rees, Jeni Tennison, Henry
          S. Thompson

   Regrets
          Tim Berners-Lee

   Chair
          Noah Mendelsohn

   Scribes
          Henry S. Thompson, Noah Mendelsohn

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Admin
         2. [6]Actions to be closed w/o discussion
         3. [7]Web Application Storage
         4. [8]W3C Web Site Architecture pages
         5. [9]Media-type registration for HTML
         6. [10]Pending review action items
     * [11]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________________

Admin

   NM: Regrets from TBL
   ... F2F in a bit over a month
   ... Local arrangements page is up
   ... JAR has published the Call for Change proposals:
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/uddp/change-proposal-call.html
   ... Traffic has started to build

   NM: Approving minutes of 2012-02-16. . .

   RESOLUTION: [13]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/02/16-minutes approved
   as minutes for 2012-02-16

Actions to be closed w/o discussion

   NM: this is a minor procedural change
   ... as signalled in email

   <noah> close ACTION-598

   <trackbot> ACTION-598 Publish as a note what had been the FPWD (Raman's
   draft) on client side state closed

   <noah> close ACTION-655

   <trackbot> ACTION-655 Check Norm Walsh draft of W3C Note with the TAG,
   draft cover letter to include with Note, and review that with the TAG
   closed

   <Larry> +1 to closing

   <Larry> do we have follow up actions on XML/HTML task force report? I
   thought we did

   <noah> Larry, we have, e.g. ACTION-656 on XML processing, though I
   think that's substantially addressed with the formation of the XML-ER
   community group

   <noah> (repeating for the record) Larry, more to the point I have
   ACTION-657 Schedule telcon discussion of possible XML/HTML Unification
   next steps

   <noah> close ACTION-660

   <trackbot> ACTION-660 Integrate input from DKA and Yves for note to
   Jeff, and draft section on CA Due: 2012-10-17 closed

   <noah> close ACTION-671

   <trackbot> ACTION-671 Respond to Jeff Jaffe, on the public list, using
   the text agreed on the telcon of 16 Feb 2012 closed

Web Application Storage

   NM: Goal today is to commit to a plan for work in this area

   AM: I've drafted some email, but haven't distributed it pending
   feedback from RB

   RB: I think it's a good starting point for discussion, yes

   AM: What this email will suggest is:
   ... 1) We have requirements for offline storage
   ... For example, to be able to run webapps either connected or
   disconnected, switching
   ... seamlessly
   ... And if you run disconnected, any updates you make will get
   synchronised
   ... when you connect again, need coherence checks, etc.
   ... 2) I have private data: medical history, preferences for hotels
   etc.
   ... Private, and kept locally, but should be available to apps

   AM: and should be able to move it to another device
   ... 3) All of the above should be possible w/o commitment to any
   particular browser
   ... So then two directions to go: what are the architectural issues,
   and what is the state of play wrt various existing implementations

   <noah> Glad to hear focus on architectural issues, as I think that's
   where the TAG's focus needs to be. In particular, I'd like to see this
   get back around to how to use Web mechanisms like URIs, how local
   storage relates to http-identified resources, etc. (I know, I say this
   every time we have this discussion)

   AM: So that's ONE
   ... Now, TWO: If you have items in local storage, do they have URIs?
   ... If the do, are they the same as their URIs 'on the web', or are
   they different?

   <noah> Right. Those are key architectural points.

   <darobin> "I suspect that the finding we want is something along the
   lines of stating that using URIs to identify resources is just as good
   an idea when a Web application runs on local data (and possibly
   completely locally) as it is in the more traditional case."

   <darobin> [14]http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#id-resources ("Assign
   distinct URIs to distinct resources.")

   <Larry> there is really a question for me about how U a URI for local
   storage would be

   <Larry> How does it work to make a URI for local storage?

   <Larry> A URI for remote storage which is served by a local cache is
   one thing

   <darobin> Larry, it's just as U as a URI for a resource that's
   completely personalised

   <Larry> do you use "http:" URIs? or some other scheme?

   NM: There's not just connected vs. disconnected, but also the case
   where an app switches back and forth, in which case the pressure to use
   the same URI is greater. . .

   AM: When looking at for example AppCache, the question comes up: how is
   it managed? Same as any other cache?

   <Larry> are there separate URIs for "dropbox" storage?

   <darobin> Larry, yes, everything works the same---you're just getting
   data from a local DB

   <Larry> robin: I don't understand 'works the same', what URI scheme do
   you use to identify stuff in local storage?

   <noah> BTW, the tradition in systems that face this
   connected/disconnected duality is to wind up with two part identifiers:
   part1 is location independent, and part 2, if available, tends to be a
   hint as to where to find a local copy. Lotus Notes does this, and I
   think CloudDB. Hard to do with URIs, I think.

   <Larry> noah: yes, i think that's the question though, what is the
   nature of the identifiers we're recommended? How does the generic
   advice actually get implemented in practice?

   AM: MNot has suggested things be expired on the basis of the app that
   cached them, rather than individually

   JT: In connection with local storage of private data, and non-browser
   specific functionality

   JT: What about remote storage, but managed a bit similarly

   AM: So non-local local storage?

   JT: Yes

   <darobin> Larry, this is all fuzzy terminology---you're not identifying
   things in local storage, you're identifying a resource generated from
   data in local storage

   <noah> Larry, I have no idea whether this is up-to-date, but a quick
   google search for dropbox and URI yields this 2 year old forum entry,
   suggesting that Dropbox was not at the time using URIs at all
   [15]http://forums.dropbox.com/topic.php?id=13834

   <noah> q, say in the Cloud?

   <Zakim> JeniT, you wanted to ask about 'unhosted' apps, 'web intents'

   <Larry> robin: ok, fine, but give a use case?

   <Ashok> Well, perhaps local storage on a Cloud

   RB: I think 'web intents' are slightly different - - partly because
   they're not well-defined yet

   RB: but mostly because they're about accessing specific URIs which have
   a remote existence

   LM: I understand the goal, I think, but I'm not coming up with a use
   case
   ... E.g. I do understand the case of a URI for a remote object that
   also works locally, via a cache

   LM: But I don't have an example in mind for a local-but-reusable URI

   <Larry> if you have a URI for remote storage but you're accessing a
   local cache, i understand you can still use http: URIs for that, but I
   am not sure what URI scheme you would use to talk to local storage
   which isn't a cache of remote storage.

   <Larry> do we need new schemes?

   NM: Agree that we have well-described use cases

   <darobin> this application uses strictly local data:
   [16]http://robineko.com/course-mobile-apps/diary-bad/diary.html

   <darobin> it could have identifiers for individual entries

   <darobin> (it doesn't because it's supposed to be demonstrating bad
   practice)

   <Larry> Robin, what would the URI be for an individual entry?

   <darobin> Larry, whatever you want, e.g.
   [17]http://robineko.com/course-mobile-apps/diary-bad/diary.html/entry-f
   oo

   <Larry> i'd use things like instance ID URIs, personally

   <Larry> and link to the resource using a GUID

   <Larry> but i don't know whether the TAG would recommend that
   architecture

   <darobin> I'd use the same URIs that I'd use if the data were stored on
   the server---where things are stored should be a black box

   <JeniT> darobin, so what -- you'd have code that tests whether the
   content is available in the local storage and if not resolve the URI?

   <darobin> JeniT, I'd make use of the History API and some routing
   mechanism, and then get the data wherever the application dictates that
   I get it

   <JeniT> darobin, I'd like to see that :)

   <darobin> Larry, JeniT, it's like this app
   [18]http://w3c-test.org/framework/app/ It doesn't currently use local
   data but it's something that it could do---and it would get nice URIs and
   all

   <darobin> Larry, JeniT, if you look at the source, you'll see that for
   any URI it's the same HTML document that gets served (and in app.js
   there's a router and all you need). If api.js used local storage it
   would be transparent

   <Larry> Robin, you see why I'm asking for a worked out use case? I
   wonder if we'd like the details as much as the general principle

   NM: So there's a question: can we do everything we need with
   more-or-less vanilla HTTP caches

   NM: Possible counterexample: new document creation during disconnection

   NM: Does this push the boundaries of our understanding of HTTP caching
   beyond where the RFCs are today?
   ... Or is it really something quite new/different?

   NM: Where are we on the Product Page?

   NM: Close to the above described email draft?

   AM: Could be used for it, yes

   <darobin> +1 to Ashok

   NM: Sounds like from this discussion you should do that

   AM: OK, I will have a try, get agreement from RB

   <noah> [19]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/clientsidestorage.html

   <noah>
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/clientsidestorage-2012-01-24.ht
   ml

   NM: That's our baseline
   ... Please move it forward in the obvious way

   <noah> ACTION-647?

   <trackbot> ACTION-647 -- Ashok Malhotra to draft product page on
   client-side storage focusing on specific goals and success criteria
   Due: 2012-01-17 -- due 2012-02-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/647

   <noah> ACTION-647?

   <trackbot> ACTION-647 -- Ashok Malhotra to draft product page on
   client-side storage focusing on specific goals and success criteria
   Due: 2012-01-17 -- due 2012-03-06 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [22]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/647

   <noah> ACTION-647?

   <trackbot> ACTION-647 -- Ashok Malhotra to draft product page on
   client-side storage focusing on specific goals and success criteria --
   due 2012-03-06 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/647

   <noah> ACTION-572?

   <trackbot> ACTION-572 -- Yves Lafon to look at appcache in HTML5 -- due
   2011-11-29 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [24]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/572

   NM: Correctly carried along with Web Storage

   YL: AppCache is different from local storage

   <darobin> I agree with Yves

   YL: Similar mechanisms, but not the same

   AM: They collide at the requirement for offline apps
   ... which is what AppCache does

   AM: You are perhaps assuming AppCache works in one particular way

   NM: They appear different because AppCache was seen as being about your
   code (HTML, JS)
   ... But going offline means taking your code and your data with you
   ... So I think they go together

   YL: Pursue at the same time, sure, but they are not the same subject

   <HT:> So I think that means we need two clear use cases that illustrate
   both the differences and the overlap

   NM: Will we have technical work ready to work with for the F2F?

   AM: If we can get the Product Page ready quickly, then yes, I hope to
   have something

   HT: I think the discussion we had just before this is very important.
   If you could give us two clear use cases in which both the differences
   between AppCache and client-side storage and the parallels are clear

   ACTION-572 Due 2012-03-06

   <trackbot> ACTION-572 Look at appcache in HTML5 due date now 2012-03-06

W3C Web Site Architecture pages

   <JeniT>
   [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Feb/0096.html

   NM: We agreed in September in Edinburgh that we would help with this
   ... JT has been the first to do so

   <noah> ACTION-610?

   <trackbot> ACTION-610 -- Jeni Tennison to draft initial cut at
   [26]http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/metaformats -- due 2012-02-14
   -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/610

   NM: Any readers?

   <Larry> yes

   <Larry> there's IETF RFC for JSON

   <Larry> [28]http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4627

   <JeniT> ok, I can swap that in

   <darobin> +1 to it being good and ready to ship

   <Larry> should W3C put JSON into webarch?

   <noah> Mostly, I think it's great. Minor objection: I don't like
   equating vocabularies with languages. Also, should provide hyperlink
   for SGML I think.

   <Larry> should we talk about XML vs. JSON for data communication,
   tradeoffs?

   <darobin> JSON is the glue that holds the web together---it should
   definitely be in WebArch!

   <noah> Also, I think for novices, the phrase "RDF is a metaformat,
   actually a metamodel, ..." will be scary rather than helpful

   <Larry> i'd put XML and JSON together, and RDF as example of how
   metaformats layer

   HT: The historical trajectory of the numbers is anybody's guess, but
   I'm pretty confident that it's still the case that most XML on the Web
   is produced by machines and is not "documents", it's "data"
   ... To suggest that XML is primarily more significantly for documents
   is misleading.

   <NM:> Hmmm...there's a lot of open office and OOXML on the Web

   <Larry> "XML is a metaformat based on SGML" is kind of scary and
   confusing if you don't know what SGML is, and also if you do know what
   SGML is.

   JT: I was trying to focus on the differences -- what is special about
   each of them

   <jar> +1 "unique strength"

   <Zakim> noah, you wanted to make a few comments

   <darobin> I agree that XML is uniquely good at documents

   <Larry> i wonder how this relates to Wikipedia entries for those terms
   :)

   NM: I think it conflates the term vocabulary with the term language

   <Larry> TIFF is a language

   NM: The TAG fought about those words for years, and there are strongly
   held positions that these are different

   <noah> "creating their own languages, often called vocabularies"

   <Larry> a vocabulary is a range of values in a protocol element

   NM: Vocabularies are useful in creating languages

   <Larry> the words are blurry i admit

   NM: Would rather say "creating their own languages, or vocabularies for
   use in those languages"

   <noah> "creating their own languages, or vocabularies for use in markup
   as part of those languages"

   <jar> I think "language" is OK as Jeni has it

   JT: I can try to unmix them
   ... There's no deep disagreement here

   <noah> Also: suggest a hyperlink for SGML

   <Larry> people use these frameworks to create application-specific
   "languages" without having to reinvent syntax

   JT: Give me a URI for SGML and I'll use it :-)

   <Zakim> Larry, you wanted to give a take

   <darobin> I'm told that [29]http://www.w3.org/TR/xml is "SGML on the
   Web", if you need a link

   LM: I used to say that XML was the best things since bits [?]
   ... Syntactic properties independent of the vocabulary
   ... scope, extensibility, unicode

   <noah> I think the crucial sentence Jeni has is: "Metaformats offer
   advantages over creating a custom syntax for a language because they
   can be processed by generic tools, and languages that use them can be
   understood by people who have learned about the metaformat."

   <noah> I think that's great. Don't change it.

   LM: Language is the way you populate a framework

   <darobin> I wonder if EXI counts as a metaformat

   <Larry> EXI is a serialization of XML

   <noah> I feel like Jeni's already offered to take a cut at changing the
   'vocab" bit. I'd just be curious to see what she comes up with.

   <darobin> Larry, no, EXI is defined as a serialisation of the XDM

   LM: Specifically, change "often called vocabularies" into a sentence on
   its own, along the lines NM and I have suggested.

   <noah> "Populate a syntax" seems a bit clumsy to me.

   <Larry> noah, I agree it's clumsy

   <darobin> you could serialise JSON to EXI

   <darobin> (and soon you will!)

   <Larry> I'd also take "based on SGML" and turn it into a separate

   <JeniT> Metaformats are generic syntaxes that people can adopt when
   creating their own application-specific languages without having to
   reinvent syntax. The terms that people use within that syntax are often
   called vocabularies. Examples of metaformats are XML [1], RDF [2] and
   JSON [3]. Metaformats offer advantages over creating a custom syntax
   for a language because they can be processed by generic...

   <JeniT> ...tools, and languages that use them can be understood by
   people who have learned about the metaformat.

   JR: Wrt the RDF part, there's no way to describe it that's not harmful
   ... I don't think the word 'metamodel' is helpful

   <Larry> [30]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_Description_Framework

   <noah> How about, "The semantic web uses a graph-based model for
   information on the Web. RDF is a metalanguage for encoding and
   communicating parts of that graph"

   JR: RDF has too much history/is too varied in its historical trajectory

   <Larry> meta-data structure

   <noah> How about, "The semantic web uses a graph-based model for
   information on the Web. RDF/XML is a metalanguage for encoding and
   communicating parts of that graph"

   <Larry> data structures & serialization

   <noah> N3 is a very different looking metalanguage, also used for
   communicating RDF graphs."

   JT: It is still a meta-something, which you can plug your own
   vocabulary into

   <darobin> you could argue that BSON is also a metaformat, as an
   encoding of JSON... if we really want to make the
   metamodel/metaserialisation thing even more complicated

   <Zakim> noah, you wanted to point to my proposal

   JAR: RDF is a lot like the DOM

   <darobin> Yves: I don't know, but it would be useful yes

   NM: [reads the above]

   JT: I don't want to mention RDF/XML or N3, people don't use them

   NM: So use whatever does get used

   <Larry> remembering "is Lisp the surface syntax with parentheses, or is
   it S-expressions?"

   <jar> RDF is a family of compatible languages with superficially
   different surface syntaxes

   <darobin> I wonder if all the distinctions that we're making here
   matter all that much to the target audience...

   <Larry> [31]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta-language

   JAR: There's a family of expressions for the RDF

   HT: Maybe the metalanguage term is unhelpful.

   NM: Um, well, it's the topic of this page

   HT: Well, still, maybe we should change it.

   NM: I think it's serving us well, except that RDF is confusing.

   <Larry> off topic

   JAR: I'll try to suggest something for the RDF bit
   ... But I've never found a good way to explain it

   NM: Narrowly, we have a draft, with some offers of help with further
   work
   ... and that's good

   <Larry> i don't think these pages need to be perfect, just need to be
   better-than-blank

   <noah> ACTION-610?

   <trackbot> ACTION-610 -- Jeni Tennison to draft initial cut at
   [32]http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/metaformats -- due 2012-02-14
   -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [33]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/610

   NM: There are other pages we are on the hook for, but I'm happy to
   allow them to come up when the come

   <Larry> I'm willing to accept wahtever Jeni does and sends off to Ian

   <darobin> +1

   <ht> -1

   <jar> I don't think "metamodel" is useful...

   <Larry> I'm willing to accept whatever Henry wants to do with what Jeni
   has written so far

   <jar> RDF is "useful for describing graph structures" in the same way
   that HTML is "useful for describing a DOM tree"---that's not what HTML is
   for

   <jar> I can't say how to improve on it right now, don't want to just
   criticize

   JT: I'll do what I can based on today's minutes, and see what HST and
   JAR come up with

   <noah> ACTION-610?

   <trackbot> ACTION-610 -- Jeni Tennison to draft initial cut at
   [34]http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/metaformats -- due 2012-03-13
   -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [35]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/610

   NM: OK, that's a plan

   <Larry> and main thing is that Henry & Jonathan are on hook to provide
   acceptable updates

Media-type registration for HTML

   <noah> ACTION-642?

   <trackbot> ACTION-642 -- Jeni Tennison to with help from Larry to
   propose plan to liaise with PLH to register HTML media type -- due
   2012-01-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [36]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/642

   <JeniT>
   [37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html

   <noah>
   [38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html

   <Larry> this action is independent of HTML5, in that the motivation was
   follow-your-nose for RDFa

   <noah> We will work with PLH, in consultation with the HTML WG, to
   create a W3C-sponsored registry of applicable HTML extensions and their
   specifications. The W3C-sponsored registry might also include
   references to other registries of applicable specifications maintained
   by other groups and organizations. Once the basics and location of the
   registry is settled, we will work to ensure that this registry is
   referenced within revised Internet Media Type registrations for
   text/html and application/html+xml.

   <Larry> quote: There is currently no direct path, following
   definitional specifications, from an HTML document to the specs for
   extensions such as microdata or RDFa. The goal is to ensure there is
   such a path to "applicable specifications".

   NM: If people are happy with the email, we just need someone to do the
   work

   NM: We would close this action and open another to do the work.

   HT: I notice that Mark Nottingham has crafted a document suggesting how
   IETF can help IANA make registries more effective, and how registries
   should work. Relates to "happiana" work in IETF.

   <Larry> this is the result of the "happiana" work, which was motivated
   in a significant way by the MIME work

   NM: Not just about media types?

   HT: No, about registries in general, that's what we're working on,
   right?

   NM: This action was scoped to HTML media type

   HST: Well, the proposal is that the W3C create a registry of
   'applicable extensions'

   HT: The e-mail proposes we create a registry. Mark's document says
   things about how to do registries well, so it's pertinent in that
   sense.

   HT: My 2nd point is that any registries that anyone creates for short
   names needs a way to give us URIs that can be used to probe the
   registry.

   <Larry> the registry of HTML applicable specifications called for in
   this action item doesn't assign short names

   JT: Don't think this one is creating short names for things.

   JAR: This already exists for XHTML. We're just cloning that, right?

   HT: It does?

   <jar> This registry already exists, for XHTML - it's the XHTML
   namespace document

   <jar> [39]http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/

   <jar> we're just talking about cloning this for HTML, right?

   LM: I think this action isn't clear. We're calling it a registry. It's
   really a list of known extensions. There are no options for them. Every
   one is allowed. We're just trying to collect them.

   <ht> LM: We're just trying to collect a definite list of them, and make
   it part of the media type registration

   HST: I'm done

   <ht> OK, interesting, JAR, thanks

   Who are we sending this to?

   NM: So is
   [40]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html an
   acceptable path forward?

   HT: I am happy with what it says

   <noah> +1, I think

   <JeniT> ht, this is the plan for what we do

   <Larry> perhaps just note the discussion today

   <Larry> +1 to this plan forward

   <ht> +1

   <noah> OK, we seem to be agreed on this direction forward.

   NM: Who will actually now work with PLH?

   JT: I will

   NM: Many thanks!

   <noah> . ACTION: Jeni to work with PLH to create W3C-sponsored registry
   of HTML extensions, and get that referenced from HTML media type
   registration, per
   [41]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html

   <Larry> "W3C Staff" (most likely PLH)

   NM: Chair will help if help is needed

   <noah> ACTION: Jeni to work with PLH to create W3C-sponsored registry
   of HTML extensions, and get that referenced from HTML media type
   registration, per
   [42]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html Due:
   2012-05-29 [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-672 - Work with PLH to create W3C-sponsored
   registry of HTML extensions, and get that referenced from HTML media
   type registration, per
   [44]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html Due:
   2012-05-29 [on Jeni Tennison - due 2012-03-08].

   <noah> ACTION-672 Due 2012-05-29

   <trackbot> ACTION-672 Work with PLH to create W3C-sponsored registry of
   HTML extensions, and get that referenced from HTML media type
   registration, per
   [45]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html Due:
   2012-05-29 due date now 2012-05-29

   <noah> close ACTION-642

   <trackbot> ACTION-642 With help from Larry to propose plan to liaise
   with PLH to register HTML media type closed

   <Zakim> Larry, you wanted to note PhiloWeb discussion

   <Larry> PhiloWeb at WWW2012

   <noah> What's a philoweb?

   <jar> philosophy of the web

   <noah> Ah... I knew that.

   <Larry>
   [46]http://web-and-philosophy.org/philoweb-2012-www-2012-workshop/

   NM: Who's going to Web conference?

   Not me.

   <Larry> i will be at the web conference

   Unfortunately.

   <JeniT> no

   <jar> probably not, unfunded

Pending review action items

   [47]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/pendingreview

   ACTION-614?

   <trackbot> ACTION-614 -- Jeni Tennison to report on progress relating
   to RDFa and Microdata -- due 2012-01-06 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [48]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/614

   I think this should be closed, per
   ([49]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/01/19-minutes#item05):

   OLD RESOLUTION: The draft product page at
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/htmldata.html is agreed as the
   basis on which the TAG closes out it's work on Microdata/RDFa
   coordination

   At that time, ACTION-654 was closed, and Noah was assigned:

   ACTION-664 - Announce completion of TAG work on Microdata/RDFa as
   recorded in [51]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/htmldata.html and
   to finalize the product page and associated links [on Noah Mendelsohn -
   due 2012-01-26].

   <Larry> +1 to closing

   ACTION-664?

   <trackbot> ACTION-664 -- Noah Mendelsohn to announce completion of TAG
   work on Microdata/RDFa as recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/htmldata.html and to finalize
   the product page and associated links -- due 2012-01-26 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [53]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/664

   close ACTION-614

   <trackbot> ACTION-614 Report on progress relating to RDFa and Microdata
   closed

   ACTION-641?

   <trackbot> ACTION-641 -- Noah Mendelsohn to try and find list of review
   issues relating to HTML5 from earlier discussions -- due 2012-03-01 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [54]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/641

   <noah> In dec I sent this:
   [55]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Dec/0108.html. I
   sent e-mail
   [56]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Feb/0099.html with
   link to pertinent TAG status report
   [57]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/sum03.html#html and also detailed
   table of issues:
   [58]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/09/HTMLIssuesRevised.pdf

   <noah> Marking this action PENDING REVIEW.

   <Larry> or maybe F2F informal discussion?

   <Larry> don't know, what do other people think?

   <noah> Prefer to start w/ call, assuming F2F time valuable

   <Larry> i'll go along with whatever others want to do

   ACTION-648?

   <trackbot> ACTION-648 -- Jonathan Rees to post call for change
   proposals to amend the resolution to httpRange-14 per 4 January 2012
   TAG Resolution -- due 2012-02-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [59]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/648

   NM: What and when do we followup.

   JAR: Probably at F2F. Could close this, and give me a new one to prep
   for F2F.

   close ACTION-648

   <trackbot> ACTION-648 Post call for change proposals to amend the
   resolution to httpRange-14 per 4 January 2012 TAG Resolution closed

   <scribe> ACTION: Jonathan to prepare for F2F discussion of httpRange-14
   change proposals Due 2012-03-13 [recorded in
   [60]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-673 - Prepare for F2F discussion of
   httpRange-14 change proposals Due 2012-03-13 [on Jonathan Rees - due
   2012-03-08].

   ACTION-673 Due 2012-03-13

   <trackbot> ACTION-673 Prepare for F2F discussion of httpRange-14 change
   proposals Due 2012-03-13 due date now 2012-03-13

   ACTION-662?

   <trackbot> ACTION-662 -- Robin Berjon to redraft proposed product page
   on API Minimization
   ([61]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/apiminimization.html) -- due
   2012-01-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [62]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/662

   ACTION-665?

   <trackbot> ACTION-665 -- Noah Mendelsohn to follow up with Harry Halpin
   on 19 January 2012 telcon discussion of CAs -- due 2012-01-26 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [63]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/665

   [64]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Feb/0098.html

   close ACTION-665

   <trackbot> ACTION-665 Follow up with Harry Halpin on 19 January 2012
   telcon discussion of CAs closed

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Jeni to work with PLH to create W3C-sponsored registry of
   HTML extensions, and get that referenced from HTML media type
   registration, per
   [65]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html Due:
   2012-05-29 [recorded in
   [66]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Jonathan to prepare for F2F discussion of httpRange-14
   change proposals Due 2012-03-13 [recorded in
   [67]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#action02]

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________________


    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [68]scribe.perl version 1.135
    ([69]CVS log)
    $Date: 2012/03/05 15:31:46 $

References

   1. http://www.w3.org/
   2. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-agenda
   3. http://www.w3.org/2012/03/01-tagmem-irc
   4. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#agenda
   5. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#item01
   6. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#item02
   7. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#item03
   8. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#item04
   9. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#item05
  10. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#item06
  11. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#ActionSummary
  12. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/uddp/change-proposal-call.html
  13. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/02/16-minutes
  14. http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#id-resources
  15. http://forums.dropbox.com/topic.php?id=13834
  16. http://robineko.com/course-mobile-apps/diary-bad/diary.html
  17. http://robineko.com/course-mobile-apps/diary-bad/diary.html/entry-foo
  18. http://w3c-test.org/framework/app/
  19. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/clientsidestorage.html
  20. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/clientsidestorage-2012-01-24.html
  21. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/647
  22. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/647
  23. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/647
  24. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/572
  25. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Feb/0096.html
  26. http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/metaformats
  27. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/610
  28. http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4627
  29. http://www.w3.org/TR/xml
  30. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_Description_Framework
  31. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta-language
  32. http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/metaformats
  33. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/610
  34. http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/metaformats
  35. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/610
  36. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/642
  37. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html
  38. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html
  39. http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/
  40. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html
  41. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html
  42. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html
  43. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#action01
  44. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html
  45. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html
  46. http://web-and-philosophy.org/philoweb-2012-www-2012-workshop/
  47. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/pendingreview
  48. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/614
  49. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/01/19-minutes#item05):
  50. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/htmldata.html
  51. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/htmldata.html
  52. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/htmldata.html
  53. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/664
  54. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/641
  55. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Dec/0108.html
  56. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Feb/0099.html
  57. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/sum03.html#html
  58. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/09/HTMLIssuesRevised.pdf
  59. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/648
  60. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#action02
  61. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/apiminimization.html)
  62. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/662
  63. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/665
  64. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Feb/0098.html
  65. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html
  66. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#action01
  67. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/03/01-minutes.html#action02
  68. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
  69. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

-- 
       Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh
      10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440
                Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk
                       URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/
 [mail from me _always_ has a .sig like this -- mail without it is forged spam]
Received on Monday, 5 March 2012 15:35:38 UTC

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