- From: pat hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
- Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:01:46 -0500
- To: w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org, Martin Duerst <duerst@w3.org>
Thinking about the issue we have been discussing, it occurs to me that XML has been holding a tiger by the tail and is now getting bitten, and this debate is a symptom of that. XML started life as a generalized text-markup system, and for that purpose it is wonderful. But it has been touted and used as something much more that just text markup: it has been announced as a kind of universal solvent for transmitting any kind of structure, a universal general-purpose structure-description system. Unfortunately, several of its features (most notably the restriction of attribute values to strings, cf http://www.waterlang.org/doc/trouble_with_xml.htm) are clearly serious design faults when seen from this more general point of view. But more to the present point, the use of a *language* to describe structures requires us to clearly distinguish the text of the description from the thing - the structure - being described. Making a distinction like this is so second-nature to programmers, mathematicians, logicians and linguists - in fact anyone who uses technical languages professionally - that it takes a while in dealing with XML to realize that XML conspicuously fails to make it, and that in fact that the entire design of XML is predicated on denying it. XML documents describe structure by *displaying* it, in effect: they *are* the structure they describe. And of course this is entirely appropriate for a markup language: it is the very essence of markup that the markup *labels* the text it is the markup 'of'. To put the same point another way, markup is inherently indexical: what it means depends on where it is. If you write <title>The Way Things Were</title>, what the enclosing markup says, in effect, is: 'THIS enclosed text is a title'. The same piece of markup surrounding some other piece of text will implicitly refer to that other piece: its meaning - what it is talking *about* - depends on where in the text the markup occurs. It's location in the text is part of its meaning; and when it is used with no text to mark up, simply as a structural description language, this indexicality is retained in the *descriptive* conventions of the resulting language: so XML as a structural description convention has a built-in confusion between describing structure and displaying or exhibiting it, a built-in ambiguity between being a description and being a kind of diagram or map, a built-in tendency to confuse use and mention. This is clearly seen in the discussion we have been having. Martin (view X) sees a piece of RDF/XML as being a kind of XML text, and the resulting document as *displaying* the RDF structure in the XML. He expects that RDF/XML will satisfy the textual scoping mechanisms which arise naturally in any kind of layout display: in particular, attributes should apply to all of the items which are in the *textual* scope of the XML element. That is the XML 'structure as textual display' assumption, of course. Patrick (view G) sees a structural description language rendered (in a fairly ad-hoc way) into XML syntax; the actual XML document is of relatively little importance: on this view, it is the structure described by the document that defines the significant, meaningful notions of scope and context. And the RDF/XML conventions clearly isolate the XML 'inside' a parseType-attributed element from the XML surrounding the element, so it is 'obvious' that the lang tags that may be relevant to the outer context do not apply to the inner one. In my earlier metaphor, Parick here is the teeth of the tiger. Once XML is sold, and bought, as a general-purpose structural description language, and is used as such by professionals who are familiar with the conventions of such languages, the XML scoping conventions which are inherited from its role as a markup language are no longer appropriate: in fact, they are *ludicrous*: they are like a children's toy in an engineering shop. Expecting professional programmers to conform to descriptive conventions defined by text-markup languages is whistling at the wind. Programmers have been using more sophisticated scoping conventions for over half a century; not because they didn't know better, but because they *needed* to. You can't display recursion using indexical markup, for a start. The XML publicists have bitten off more than they know how to chew. If the result is XML that disobeys the XML 'conventions' and is unreadable by non-programmers, should anyone be surprised? Pat Hayes -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973 home 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax FL 32501 (850)291 0667 cell phayes@ihmc.us http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
Received on Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:01:48 UTC