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minutes of telecon 10-28

From: Christopher Welty <welty@us.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:28:40 -0400
To: public-swbp-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <OF6EB56407.D81BAEE6-ON85256F3B.005A745D-85256F3B.005A8362@us.ibm.com>
W3C Semantic Web Best Practices & Deployment Working Group

Minutes of telecon for
28 October 2004, 1400 UTC
Duration: 60 -90 min

IRC Log: http://www.w3.org/2004/10/28-swbp-irc#T14-12-43

Chair:  Guus Schreiber
Scribe: Chris Welty
Guest: Dan Chang, IBM (joins at 1430 UTC for agenda item 4 (ODM)

Please note that SWBP&D WG telecons are for attendance by members and
invited experts only.


Roll call
(phone) Guus_Schreiber, ChrisW, Libby_Miller, TomAdams, Evan_Wallace, 
Jeremy, Alan_Rector, Tom_Baker, Gary_Ng, MarcoNanni, DanChang
(irc) RalphS, DWood

RESOLVED: to accept the minutes of the Oct 14 telecon:
plus 2 corrections: regrets Tom Baker and Marco Nanni

RESOLVED: cancel next telecon Nov 11 1600 UTC (cancel due to ISWC in 

Guus and Jeremy remind WG of W3C Policy wrt off-list discussions:

Guus reports that today's mailing list messages have not appeared in the 

2. ACTION ITEM REVIEW (10-15 min)


   ACTION: jjc make a first sketch of short guideline note for using xml 
schema datatypes (in rdf/owl) [13] [COMPLETED]
   ACTION: chrisW ask main author or representative to join a telecon or 
f2f via phone [18] [COMPLETED]
   ACTION: deb to taking lead on ?closing roles? (missed exactly 
what,sorry) [24] [COMPLETED]
   ACTION: al send update of this message to indicate docs we shoudl read 
before f2f by 25th oct [25] [COMPLETED]

   ACTION: BenB read ODM documents [2] [CONTINUED]
   ACTION: gary ng review ODM [7] [CONTINUED]
   ACTION: Ralph to ask WG for feedback on requirement to embed RDF/XML 
markup in an XHTML document  [9] [CONTINUED]
   ACTION: danbri circulate links for his existing feedback/review to dawg 
   ACTION: philT look at garyng's message, see what actions if any this wg 
shoudl take [20] [CONTINUED]
   ACTION: chrisw approach sophia about units and measures particpating 
   ACTION: guus to note on numeric ranges after the xml datatypes TF has 
finished [23] [CONTINUED]
   ACTION: libby to make that note into a document to read for the f2f by 
25th oct [28] [CONTINUED]

   ACTION: guus send jeremy pointer about numeric ranges and XMLS [13] 
   ACTION: jjc to send around pointers on HTML TF [14] 
   ACTION: libby to send pointers to list in preparation for f2f [15] 


Draft agenda:

Change start times?

Telecon time change to 16:14-18:00
Second day moved to account for heavy traffic.  Starting at 9:30.


See Evan's message:

Dan Chang of IBM joins telecon.

Guus: status of xml presentation syntax: a note and not part of 
DanC: originally thought to use DL as core of metamodel, but have decided 
not to 
Dan: for revised submission, ODM will have metamodel(s), UML profiles, 
metamodel mappings 
Dan: also XML schemas 
Dan: currently design is based on ontology definition languages like RDF, 
OWL, topic maps 
Dan: "modeling" needs served by UML 
Dan: metamodel for RDFS, OWL (which extends RDFS metamodel), topicmap 
Dan: metamodel for SCL, and ER as well 
Guus: is it possible, e.g. for something in ER metamodel to have mappings 
to other metamodels? 
Dan: yes. We use OWL full as the core, with mappings in/out to the others 
Dan: also a mapping from OWL Full to UML 
Dan: team members for topic maps Lewis Hart from at&t 
Gary: Why these languages, and languages that are out of scope? 
Dan: RFP only talks about OWL DL, and "probably" should address others, 
and defines ontology as a spectrum 
Dan: group added SCL and topic maps, and ER, for some reasons 
guus: express is also a useful language from the STEP community 
Dan: yes - there has been some communication but it came too late for this 
Dan: deadline from OMG extended to January 
AlanR: why backing off from DL? 
Dan: OWL Full anchor point for mappings 
Dan: mainly because OWL Dl is a subset of OWL full 
Gary: concerned that mapping from OWL Full to OWL DL may not be 
Dan: intend to use "OCL constraints" to distinguish between OWL DL and OWL 
AlanR: certain mappings to OWL Full will not reduce smoothly to OWL DL 
Alanr: OWL DL is not the standard DL description, as it does not have 
qualified cardinality constraints 
Dan: ODM team not the best one to address that 
Jeremy: will the UML <-> OWL mappings be useful for legacy migration of 
UML models of systems to OWL? 
Dan: Main purpose of mappings is to use UML tools to model and generate 
OWL, RDF, topic maps... 
Dan: But another purpose is to leverage existing UML models, so, yes 
Dan: people interested in that should look at our proposal and give us 
ChrisW: suggests that SCL would be the better choice for "anchor" point 
than OWL Full - that's waht SCL was designed for.
Dan states that mapping will be done in tables for January 
Dan: mappings will be expressed using OMG's QVT spec 
Guus asked about how the metamodel may effect the profile 
Dan: properties will become stereotype MOF associations 
Dan: we use class construct to define "user defined" properties 
Dan: subclass are MOF meta associations 
Dan: by end of Nov., first complete draft by end of Nov. 
guus: we will schedule some time in advance to work on that 
Dan: the OMG process will allow more time, maybe another year, to refine 
after Jan., and interact 

Group thanks Dan Chang for his participation and cooperation.


See thread starting with:

THis agendum moved to f2f due to time.

6. TF UPDATES (5-10 min each)

All TF leaders: please also reflect on status of FTF goals:
Background: Guus' proposals:

6.1 OEP (Deb), Chris)

Web page:

Chris breifly summarizes state of TF, as shown on web page.
Units and Measures: editor candidate likely to be rejected by W3C as WG 
This will need f2f discussion.  A lot of requests for this note, need to 
determine how to move forward.  This will be the principle item discussed 
f2f during the OEP section (during telecon).

6.2 PORT (Alistair)

Ftf documents

6.3 WordNet (Aldo)

no progress at the moment 
Improtant to have something for f2f.

6.4 XML Schema datatypes (Jeremey)

Note sketch:

jeremy has produced a draft note for f2f discussion 
guus: relation between OEP numeric ranges note and XMLS datatypes 
action: guus send jeremy pointer about numeric ranges and XMLS 

6.5 Vocabulary management (TomB)

draft and various other documents available for f2f discussion 
Tom: draft indicates what contributions people can make. Would like to 
make it a wiki and have WG members follow guidelines to make 
Tom: seeking feedback on outline or process. Need some guidance on putting 
in wiki 

Messages from Tom:
Time line:
Roles TF members:

6.6 HTML (Ben)

Like WN also close to finishing but haven't produced f2f info 
jjc: telecon last fri, another 2morrow, 
jjc: discuss latest metadata module 
ACTION: jjc to send around pointers on HTML TF 

6.7 ADTF (Libby)

libby posts link to latest work 
libby: using DOPE very easy to add 
ACTION: libby to send pointers to list in preparation for f2f 

6.8 Tutorial Page (TomA)

TomA some links coming, including ISWC 
guus: tutorial page not on f2f agenda. Should we consider it? 
TomA: i wont be at f2f, will post questions to list 

7. AOB

Meeting adjourned at 15:38
Received on Thursday, 28 October 2004 16:29:18 UTC

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