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Minutes, SVG telcon Thursday 4 September 2008

From: Anthony Grasso <anthony.grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:58:42 +1000
Message-ID: <48BFCD72.2070709@cisra.canon.com.au>
To: W3C SVG Public Working Group <public-svg-wg@w3.org>

http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-svg-minutes.html

---

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

04 Sep 2008

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0210.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           ed, anthony, Doug_Schepers, heycam, nhagelro, aemmons, ChrisL

    Regrets
    Chair
           Erik

    Scribe
           anthony

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Action Update
          2. [6]Test Suite
          3. [7]Removing Document::Implementation
             http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSe
             p/0204.html
          4. [8]Pragmas and extended attributes at the top of the uDOM
             IDL
      * [9]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot> Date: 04 September 2008

    <scribe> scribe: anthony

    <scribe> scribeNick: anthony

Action Update

    <ed> [10]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/2

      [10] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/2

    ED: We can see all the open actions we have
    ... not all of these are vital to fix

    ACTION-2024

    <ed> [11]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2024

      [11] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2024

    <heycam> ACTION-2024?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2024 -- Doug Schepers to add wording to the
    specification that content with circular references is not
    conformant -- due 2008-05-27 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2024

      [12] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2024

    ED: Action-2024 might be important

    DS: I think I may have already done that
    ... if not I know what needs to be done
    ... I'll be closing that this week

    CM: When I was working on the refs section this week
    ... what was it about?

    DS: It was about content
    ... to say authors shouldn't do that
    ... it was specified for implementations

    ACTION-2063?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2063 -- Cameron McCormack to fix the spec by
    aligning the script element behavior with HTMLs script element
    behavior -- due 2008-06-19 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [13]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2063

      [13] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2063

    CM: I just came up with something this afternoon
    ... that is pretty much what we discussed
    ... and what Maciej said

    ED: Do you have a link for the proposed text?

    <ed>
    [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/021
    3.html

      [14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0213.html

    ED: I haven't had time to read I through
    ... perhaps we should wait
    ... that's pending for now

    ACTION-2014?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2014 -- Chris Lilley to review font-family
    selection e-mail, bring issues back to the group for discussion --
    due 2008-05-20 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2014

      [15] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2014

    CL: I've looked at that
    ... don't think there will be any changes to the spec
    ... I think it's just an explanation required

    ED: Is the schema something we need to do before we publish?

    DS: Something we can do while we are in last call

    <ChrisL> Just explaining why we can't assume that there is a font
    with a glyph for 'a' on the system 9even though there almost always
    is)

    ACTION-2107?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2107 -- Cameron McCormack to update the 1.2T spec
    with the reworded section on progressive rendering and tree
    construction -- due 2008-07-29 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2107

      [16] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2107

    CM: Was about when nodes get inserted into the tree
    ... when parsing

    ED: Well if you know what needs to be done
    ... then we can continue

    ACTION-2131?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2131 -- Cameron McCormack to propose text
    regarding issue-274 (when animations can be interpolated) -- due
    2008-08-21 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [17]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2131

      [17] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2131

    CM: This one I thought we postponed
    ... I must no have changed the product

    ED: I'll change it now

    ACTION-2132?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2132 -- Doug Schepers to propose text for UA
    indication in case a link is in scope -- due 2008-08-21 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2132

      [18] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2132

    DS: Pretty minor, will be doing that today
    ... the same for 2133

    ACTION-2148?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2148 -- Doug Schepers to take up ISSUE-2031 with
    the HTML WG -- due 2008-08-28 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [19]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2148

      [19] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2148

    DS: I did send something to them
    ... but there hasn't been a reply
    ... I'll also ask Ian

    ACTION-2155?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2155 -- Doug Schepers to add the keyboard events
    from DOM 3 Events to an SVGT12 appendix -- due 2008-08-29 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2155

      [20] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2155

    ED: About adding keyboard events

    DS: I've started doing that
    ... I noticed that we already have the stuff in there
    ... but we also refer to DOM 3 Events
    ... We said we were sub-setting things from DOM 3 Events
    ... I may or may not keep the sub-setting part
    ... I'll have that done this week

    ACTION-2156?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2156 -- Cameron McCormack to fix transition from
    DOM 3 Events to DOM 2 Events and uDOM, and to fix testsuite -- due
    2008-08-29 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2156

      [21] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2156

    CM: This one which is changing the rest of the spec to refer to DOM
    2
    ... and remove DOM 3 refs
    ... I was waiting for Doug to be done

    CL: DOM 3 Events is not in the refs section
    ... and neither is DOM 2
    ... I was editing the references today
    ... Element traversal is a working progress
    ... what's happening with it?

    DS: In CR
    ... multiple implementations
    ... just need to create a test suite

    CL: That's the only one that says working progress in our normative
    refs

    ED: What's the status of the test suite?

    DS: There is none
    ... once I finish my SVG edit actions
    ... I'll make one

    ED: Ok

    ACTION-2159?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2159 -- Erik Dahlström to do progress event name
    change to Tiny 1.2 -- due 2008-08-28 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [22]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2159

      [22] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2159

    ED: I committed the event name changes
    ... for SVGPreLoad and SVGProgress
    ... I have to ask Charles to see if we can get a common name for
    SVGPostLoad
    ... so I guess that's the only thing left
    ... I'd prefer if the event names were in some form of alignment
    ... I think it would be useful to have it in the progress events
    spec as well
    ... I'll be asking Charles because he's the editor of the progress
    events spec

    ACTION-2164?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2164 -- Doug Schepers to add 'role' attribute (and
    informative reference to XHTML Role attribute module) and to change
    the content model of the title and desc elements to be text -- due
    2008-08-30 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2164

      [23] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2164

    DS: I have added role and title
    ... I've done this
    ... but waiting for feedback
    ... on title
    ... from Dr Olaf and Jeff

    ACTION-2174?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2174 -- Erik Dahlström to remove the 'this'
    keyword binding in the 'handler' element, and investigate if the
    execution of the handler content is actually like a Function object
    or if the contents are put in the global scope -- due 2008-08-31 --
    OPEN

    <trackbot> [24]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2174

      [24] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2174

    ED: I had a look at what Opera is doing for this one
    ... and I'm wondering if this is a good action
    ... Opera treats the element handler sort of like script element
    ... but we don't bind this
    ... or the arguments
    ... it's not really like a function in Opera
    ... if you define a variable in the handler it won't be defined
    anywhere else

    CM: That's different to what Batik does

    ED: I can see the point to having it as it is
    ... although that's not what Opera is doing currently
    ... it could be changed
    ... but I don't know when I'll get time

    CM: Would be nice to see what other players do

    <ed>
    [25]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/script-handler-201-
    t.svg

      [25] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/script-handler-201-t.svg

    ED: So it's testing the keywords
    ... and scoping and so on

    CM: That test the arguments?

    ED: I think that was 202
    ... I would prefer if more implementers have more comments on this?

    NH: We fail the first
    ... it's not equal to document
    ... I'm not really sure I'll have to investigate this

    ED: I guess I can postpone this
    ... and wait for feedback on the public list

    NH: Both tests?

    ED: Yes both

    ACTION-2176?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2176 -- Cameron McCormack to replace Global with
    Abstract View and add the reference -- due 2008-08-31 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [26]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2176

      [26] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2176

    AG: You sent an email about this?

    CM: I did haven't had any replies about it

    <heycam>
    [27]http://www.w3.org/mid/20080903060135.GD21745@arc.mcc.id.au

      [27] http://www.w3.org/mid/20080903060135.GD21745@arc.mcc.id.au

    <shepazu>
    [28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/020
    6.html

      [28] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0206.html

    DS: The last wording there
    ... that's pretty much derived from HTML5 right?

    CM: Yes same sort of thing
    ... I guess it's not really necessary for us to go into the Window
    object

    ED: What exactly is your suggestion?

    NH: Your last sentence in the email
    ... we can leave but shouldn't be SVGGlobal
    ... necessary for us to keep
    ... current content will not work

    CM: So they are saying gobal.document.parsexml

    NH: We do that

    CM: Could be left in without any problem
    ... if you leave that in then you don't need default view
    ... maybe we could subset DOM 2 Views a bit

    ED: I guess sub-setting would be cleaner

    NH: what would SVGGlobal inherit from?

    CM: I'd think I'd prefer it not to inherit

    ED: In that case is that enough information to go doing this action?

    CM: That was not what the original action was to do
    ... it was just to replace Global with Abstract View

    ED: Would referring to DOM 2 Views be ok
    ... subset that

    CM: I has no impact on what properties are around
    ... just the structure

    NH: I think I'm fine with that
    ... can you send an email with what you're going to introduce?

    DS: Might be easier to make the change and send the link

    CL: As long as it doesn't effect content

    <heycam>
    [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/020
    6.html

      [29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0206.html

    NH: You're going to remove parent?

    CM: No moving it

    DS: Will this still satisfy the browser vendors?

    CM: Don't know, but it will satisfy them more than before
    ... I could ask see what they think

    RESOLUTION: Do what it says in the email sent Cameron regarding
    removal of SVGGlobal::parent, except don't add Default View and
    leave the Global attribute

    CM: I can just continue my current action

    ACTION-2179?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2179 -- Cameron McCormack to move timer from
    Global to the SVG Module and remove the Global Module -- due
    2008-08-31 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [30]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2179

      [30] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2179

    CM: I did this one
    ... but I left it open because of the question about SVGTimer

    ED: If we are keeping it I'd prefer it to be moved to SVGTimer

    CM: The name does not change the content

    AG: Is that ok?

    NH: I'm happy with that

    CM: What's the name of the event?
    ... SVGTimer is the event type

    ED: That's the last of the open actions set for Tiny
    ... I guess we should try to decide a deadline date for edits
    ... Doug you'll probably know the publication schedule
    ... is next Friday ok?

    DS: Shooting for publication date of next Friday
    ... needs to be done well before then, 2 or 3 days before then
    ... everyone should have action items done before the 11th

    <ChrisL> publication moratorium for tpac

    <ChrisL> 13 October, 12pm ET: Deadline for publication requests

    <ChrisL> before moratorium

    <ChrisL> 16 October: Last publications before moratorium

    <ChrisL> 17 - 26 October: No publications

    <ChrisL> 27 October: Publications resume

Test Suite

    CL: I sent an email before about XMLRI
    ... I've finished that now

    DS: Fantastic

    ED: We need to make a publication of the test suite
    ... need to make sure the reference images are correct
    ... we didn't make any in the last f2f
    ... still a bit of work there

    AE: Do we still rely on Batik to make some of the automatic
    reference images?

    ED: I think so
    ... but you can drop any other binary in there
    ... as long as the syntax is correct
    ... we could use Inkscape but it wont work on any scripting ones

    AE: Do we have an idea of how Batik goes on some of the new tests?

    CM: Not very well

    AE: We'll probably need some patch images made
    ... it looks like Anthony and I to do the test suite stuff

    <heycam> trackbot, close ACTION-2179

    <trackbot> ACTION-2179 Move timer from Global to the SVG Module and
    remove the Global Module closed

    AG: I can generate a new version of the test suite and create the
    images

    ED: So this has to be done when?
    ... same time as the spec?

    DS: I'd prefer it be done before?

    ED: I think we do have a bunch of actions left on the test suite
    ... but we still need to publish on a regular basis
    ... even if we still haven't finished all the actions we should
    still go ahead

    AE: I think turning the crank on this

    DS: Monday or Tuesday we should have the test suite ready

Removing Document::Implementation
[31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0204.h
tml

      [31] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0204.html

    ED: If we have some empty interfaces I don't see any reason to keep
    them around
    ... unless I hear something about keeping them around
    ... Cameron you can go ahead and remove them

    CM: It's a pretty useless thing to have if there is nothing on the
    interfaces

    AG: I'm ok with it

    NH: I'm fine with it

    DS: I'm fine with it

    <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to remove Document:Implementation from the
    interface and the DOM implementation interface [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2182 - Remove Document:Implementation from
    the interface and the DOM implementation interface [on Cameron
    McCormack - due 2008-09-11].

Pragmas and extended attributes at the top of the uDOM IDL

    <ed>
    [33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/020
    7.html

      [33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0207.html

    CM: I could find nothing on the web about these particular names
    ... who worked on most of the uDOM at the start?
    ... I can only assume there are some IDL compiler specific things

    ED: If there is no definition of what it does then I don't see a
    reason to keep it around

    AG: So you'll just remove it from the IDL?

    CM: Ok

    <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to Remove the square-bracketted extended
    attributes at the top of the uDOM IDL [recorded in
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2183 - Remove the square-bracketted
    extended attributes at the top of the uDOM IDL [on Cameron McCormack
    - due 2008-09-11].

    ED: I didn't notice anyone with an action to do the change log
    ... and we cannot do it before all the changes are done

    CM: Someone can start
    ... we were thinking at the F2F to add links of the diffs from the
    previous publication

    ED: I guess that's fine for catching everything
    ... we also discussed getting a high level description of the change
    ... I did write a script for getting the diff version
    ... so it will fetch of all the diff HTML pages

    <ed> [35]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/tools/htmldiff/

      [35] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/tools/htmldiff/

    CM: It would be nice if someone who has time to go through and do
    that

    ED: I've committed a small tool for getting all the diffs

    DS: Let me do my editing actions this week

    <scribe> ACTION: Doug to Make sure have the HTML diff marked pages
    from the spec in the changes chapter [recorded in
    [36]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2184 - Make sure have the HTML diff marked
    pages from the spec in the changes chapter [on Doug Schepers - due
    2008-09-11].

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to remove Document:Implementation from the
    interface and the DOM implementation interface [recorded in
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-svg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to Remove the square-bracketted extended
    attributes at the top of the uDOM IDL [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-svg-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: Doug to Make sure have the HTML diff marked pages from
    the spec in the changes chapter [recorded in
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [40]scribe.perl version 1.133
     ([41]CVS log)
     $Date: 2008/09/04 11:55:40 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [40] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [41] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

    [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51
Check for newer version at [42]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002
/scribe/

      [42] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/SVGKeyLoad/SVGPreLoad/
Succeeded: s/SVTimer/SVGTimer/
Succeeded: s/change/ does not change/
Succeeded: s/difs/diffs/
Found Scribe: anthony
Inferring ScribeNick: anthony
Found ScribeNick: anthony
Default Present: ed, anthony, Doug_Schepers, heycam, nhagelro, aemmons,
  ChrisL
Present: ed anthony Doug_Schepers heycam nhagelro aemmons ChrisL
Agenda: [43]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSe
p/0210.html
Found Date: 04 Sep 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [44]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: cameron doug

      [43] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0210.html
      [44] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-svg-minutes.html

    End of [45]scribe.perl diagnostic output]

      [45] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
Received on Thursday, 4 September 2008 11:59:28 UTC

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