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Re: [css-pseudo] Need a way to styling the disclosure triangle of the <details> (or <summary>) element

From: Tab Atkins Jr. <jackalmage@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 08:20:11 -0800
Message-ID: <CAAWBYDAPT+U0xGdQMBUf8npTcej4sGMnCk9K=V=k4Qmk3mj9Sg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Daniel Glazman <daniel.glazman@disruptive-innovations.com>
Cc: www-style list <www-style@w3.org>
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:34 PM, Daniel Glazman
<daniel.glazman@disruptive-innovations.com> wrote:
> On 07/03/2016 19:23, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote:
>> A horizontal navbar is *not* a table, by any stretch of the
>> imagination.  It's a horizontal arrangement of boxes.  display:table
>> happens to achieve that, and luckily also has some nice size-balancing
>> behavior.
>>
>> Or, if you want to say that a horizontal navbar *is* a table, then the
>> summary element is exaclty as much a list item.  It's a block element
>> with a bullet, exactly like a list item.
>>
>> You can't have it both ways.  Either 'display' is non-semantic and its
>> values get used for all sorts of things unrelated to the original
>> naming, or 'display' is semantic *but* the "semantics" are way wider
>> than one would naively believe.  The first way allows <summary> to use
>> display:list-item.  The second way condemns people using display:table
>> for navbars.
>
> You did not understand me: I never said display is semantic. I said
> human beings give semantic to its value. 'table' for a table rendition
> is normal, understandable, logic. 'list-item' for a details' summary
> is far less.

No, I got you, but it sounds like you're not understanding *me*.  A
horizontal navbar *is not a table rendition*.  It's not a table in any
way, shape, or form.  It's just a one-line horizontal arrangement of
blocks.  (Or if it *is* a table, then so is block layout - that's just
a one-line vertical arrangement of blocks. This beggars the definition
of "table".)

People do not think "oh, this navbar is basically a table, I should
use display:table for it, that seems appropriate".  They think "I need
these to be horizontal. display:table does that, I guess I'll use it".
It's a functional understanding of the values - they have some effect,
I need that effect, I'll use them.  It's just a tool in their toolbox,
sitting right next to "lots of floats" and "display:inline-block".

There hasn't been a lot of call for "a block with a marker" yet, so I
wouldn't be surprised if most people haven't built up a functional
understanding of what display:list-item does; it's pretty reasonable
for them currently to think of it as "the thing that goes on <li>".
But there's no reason to presume that it will stay this way, and
people will have trouble adapting their functional understanding of
the value.

(All this presumes that people *will care in the slightest*, which I
doubt for the most part.  We're adjusting the UA stylesheet for a
rarely-used element, not authoring a new tutorial guide.)

~TJ
Received on Tuesday, 8 March 2016 16:21:03 UTC

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