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Re: [css-fonts] proposal needed for synthesizing oblique fonts in vertical text

From: John Daggett <jdaggett@mozilla.com>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 23:34:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: www-style@w3.org
Message-ID: <1049203707.15195177.1368513265471.JavaMail.root@mozilla.com>


Koji Ishii wrote:

> > Koji, the default display of italic Latin text in vertical text
> > runs is identical in both proposals (or at least what I *think*
> > you're proposing).  It's the *upright* display of Latin italics
> > that will differ.  This is why I said you need to clearly identify
> > the behavior when 'text-orientation: upright' is specified.  I
> > think this is the case your referring to above, no?
> > >
> Thanks for the reply, I know guess it's my English skill problem,
> appreciate your help to understand correctly.
> 
> When you say "right sloping" and "the same way and not vary based on
> codepoint or due to horizontal or vertical line orientation," does
> that mean all characters are slanted right-edge-to-down in vertical
> flow? I couldn't understand "right sloping" is in physical direction
> or in relative to baseline. If the latter, I understand we're saying
> the same thing.

Right sloping in the glyph design coordinate system.  In other words,
the synthesized glyphs are sheared right in the glyph design
coordinate system, then laid out (either rotated 90 right or upright).

In visual terms, I'm proposing (1) and I *think* you're proposing (2)
in the illustration below:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2013May/att-0027/synthetic-italics-tategaki.png

Your proposal introduces an inconsistency when 'text-orientation:
upright' is used, real italics and synthetic italics will differ in
how they display, one will slant right, the other down.  Case (3) in
the illustration above results from setting 'font-family: Arial', the
real italic face of Arial is used but for the Japanese text the
italics are synthesized.

What I'd like to emphasize here is that there isn't any deep usage of
italics in Japanese that makes either one of these "correct".  In the
context of Microsoft Word, slanting as in (2) makes the effect look
consistent for the italic Japanese vertical text runs that contain
rotated Latin text runs:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2013May/att-0028/msword-synthetic-italics.png

But as everyone is saying, there really isn't a use case for vertical
italic Japanese text runs and proposal (2) *does* introduce an
inconsistency into vertical runs of Latin italics, the synthesized
italics will differ from real italics.

Regards,

John Daggett
Received on Tuesday, 14 May 2013 06:34:54 UTC

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