- From: Giuseppe Pascale <giuseppep@opera.com>
- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 09:29:45 +0100
- To: "Masahito Kawamori" <kawamori.masahito@lab.ntt.co.jp>
- Cc: "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>, "public-web-and-tv@w3.org" <public-web-and-tv@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <op.wyh9vvhr6ugkrk@giuseppep-x220>
On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 06:52:38 +0100, Masahito Kawamori <kawamori.masahito@lab.ntt.co.jp> wrote: > > Giuseppe > > I suspect there may be some confusion about the semantics of nav-* > properties. Do you think we can clarify this and >talk with the > accessibility people, where there is some objections to the use of > nav-index. As mentioned below, I do not have problems with the spec dropping tab-index. My question is about the other nav-* properties. Their semantic seems pretty straightforward, at least in the form commonly used. So if there isn't any issue with those, they should be kept in IMO. /g > > What do you think? > > Cheers > > Kawamori > > On Tuesday, June 11, 2013, Giuseppe Pascale <giuseppep@opera.com> wrote: >> Hi all, >> while my request below for feedback and clarification went unanswered, >> I see that the group went ahead and decided >to drop the nav-* >> properties [1]. >> >> AFAIK all the issues mentioned in the various threads are about >> nav-index. But as result all nav-* properties were >dropped. Can you >> help me understand why? Are there any issues specific of the >> nav-up/down/left/right? If so, could you >point me to that? >> >> As mentioned before, the nav-up/down/left/right (but NOT nav-index) >> properties are currently actively used in the TV >space, and referenced >> by public standards based on Web Standards. Note also that: >> >> 1. they are used as a way to handle navigation done with a standard >> remote control (so not keyboard tab navigation) >> 2. they are implemented in TVs using Webkit as well as Opera/Presto >> based TVs. >> >> Would be good to understand if there is any part of the spec that is >> NOT broken and can be kept in, to avoid forcing >other groups to have >> to reference an old CSS drafts (practice that W3C usually try to >> discourage) >> >> Thanks, >> >> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Apr/0428.html >> >> /g >> >> On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:17:12 +0100, Giuseppe Pascale >> <giuseppep@opera.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Tantek, >>> I've just read your mail exchange with my colleague Mike [1][2][3] and >>> I wanted to add few comments on that thread >as well as extend the >>> discussion to the Web&TV IG, as there could be other people that may >>> have an opinion on this >subject. >>> >>> In short, the CSS Basic UI spec [4] mark nav-* properties as at risk, >>> and you seem to agree they should be dropped. >>> >>> As already mentioned by Mike in [1] and [3] , we (Opera) do recommend >>> use of nav-* properties for our TV store >Apps, and AFAIK so far we >>> haven't received any complaint (this doesn't mean there are no issues >>> of course, but at >least we haven't heard of any) >>> >>> Furthermore, as also mentioned by Mike, there are other specifications >>> referencing CSS nav-* properties, namely >HbbTV [5]. >>> >>> The HbbTV specification, although not aimed to the "Open Web", it's >>> still a public specification and is currently >supported in Europe by >>> many retail devices (mostly TVs and STBs), not only Opera based but >>> also Webkit based >>> >>> Also in this case, I haven't heard (so far) any complaint from (Hbb)TV >>> apps developers. >>> >>> Given the pointers above, can you help me (us) understand what is the >>> problem with css nav-* properties and why you >want to drop them? As >>> they seem to be used and supported by different browsers, would be >>> possible to investigate more >in details what is working (and what is >>> not) and maybe drop only the problematic parts (if any)? >>> >>> I appreciate you may have debated this at length before on the >>> www-style list, but I was wondering if for the >benefit of the web&tv >>> folks you could summarize the issues and provide related pointers. >>> >>> Also note that personally I haven't done an in depth analysis of the >>> spec and/or the implementations out there, but >I wanted to get this >>> discussion started ASAP as the deadline for comments is already passed. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2013Feb/0027.html >>> [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2013Feb/0036.html >>> [3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2013Feb/0037.html >>> [4] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-ui/ >>> [5] http://hbbtv.org/pages/about_hbbtv/specification.php >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Giuseppe Pascale >> Product Manager TV & Connected Devices >> Opera Software >> >> -- Giuseppe Pascale Product Manager TV & Connected Devices Opera Software
Received on Tuesday, 11 June 2013 08:30:38 UTC