Re: REwrite of 1.1.6

David, I would potentially expect our transcript to contain collated
captions and extended audio descriptions, that is, all the information
needed to understand the visuals, not just the amount of information that
can fit in the gaps of the dialog in the audio. And for something like a
physics class, which is presenting complex visual encodings of information,
the audio description part might well be something you¹d like to skip over
when scanning for some specific piece of information.

I think the goal here is not to require any specific representation of the
information, but to be sure the information is available. I think any
³text-based² representation which is an accessible equivalent to the content
should satisfy, whether it is a plain text transcript, a marked-up html
version of the information that could contain skip links, or a version where
there is a web-like representation of the text with links to pieces of the
content. 

Loretta


On 2/11/06 7:57 AM, "David MacDonald" <befree@magma.ca> wrote:

>>> >>What's the longest description you've needed to wade through?  That might
>>> be a factor...
>  
> It dependsŠThe end of the movie ³Apocalypse Now² had long periods of no
> dialogueŠIn that case there would be quite a bit of description between the
> dialogueŠ Audio descriptions are limited to the available space between
> dialogue so they are generally short.
>  
> In your example of the online professorŠthe descriptions would be generally
> very shortŠespecially in a lecture seriesŠ and descriptions are limited to the
> space between the dialogue on the video. I¹ve never seen a professor who
> doesn¹t talk much in a class. (oops sorry Gregg J )
>  
> I would also suggest that the example is not ³equivalent² to that of a sighted
> person but rather ³enhanced² because sighted people sit through the
> descriptions in the video, unless they hit the fast forward button.
>  
> If we want to create that kind of ³enhanced² experience of skipping the
> descriptions then I suggest put the burden on the person who wants the
> enhanced experience by putting in ³skip description² links (like a skip nav)
> that the user can use to bounce over the descriptions. (kind of like the
> sighted person who would have to hit fast forward)
>  
> That way the default presentation includes the descriptions (without having to
> bounce around) and the enhanced version allows the user to skip over it with a
> link. 
> 
>  
> 
> David MacDonald
>  
> 
>  
>  
>> 
>> 
>> From: Gregg Vanderheiden [mailto:gv@trace.wisc.edu]
>> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:21 PM
>> To: Andrew Kirkpatrick; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
>> Subject: RE: REwrite of 1.1.6
>> 
>> Yes, I see what you are saying.    But I'm not sure what value having the
>> captions without the description would be?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Gregg
>> 
>>  -- ------------------------------
>> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>> Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
>> Director - Trace R & D Center
>> University of Wisconsin-Madison
>> The Player for my DSS sound file is at http://tinyurl.com/dho6b
>> <http://tinyurl.com/cmfd9>
>> 
>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:04 PM
>>> To: Gregg Vanderheiden; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
>>> Subject: RE: REwrite of 1.1.6
>>> Not everyone will want to read the descriptions intermixed with the
>>> captions.  As a result, while it is fine to say that these different types
>>> of information should be mixed together, it may not create the best
>>> experience.  one method that would allow users to have easy access to the
>>> descriptions within a transcript would be to link to the descriptions (the
>>> descriptions could be in the same file, or even in a separate file) instead
>>> of to include the description text directly. This way, the user could listen
>>> to the description if desired, and skipped more easily.
>>>  
>>> The reason I mentioned this was that your suggested rewrite to 1.1.6 could
>>> potentially make this technique insufficient to satisfy the requirement, and
>>> I want to make sure that this would be allowed.
>>>  
>>> Is that more clear?
>>>  
>>> AWK
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Gregg Vanderheiden [mailto:gv@trace.wisc.edu]
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 1:53 PM
>>>> To: Andrew Kirkpatrick; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
>>>> Subject: RE: REwrite of 1.1.6
>>>> 
>>>> I don't understand this suggestion.
>>>>  
>>>> Gregg
>>>> 
>>>>  -- ------------------------------
>>>> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>>>> Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
>>>> Director - Trace R & D Center
>>>> University of Wisconsin-Madison
>>>> The Player for my DSS sound file is at http://tinyurl.com/dho6b
>>>> <http://tinyurl.com/cmfd9>
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:38 AM
>>>>> To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
>>>>> Subject: RE: REwrite of 1.1.6
>>>>> Gregg,
>>>>>> Proposed
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 1.1.6 For prerecorded multimedia content, a combined document containing
>>>>>> captions <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/appendixA.html#captionsdef>
>>>>>> intermixed with the audio description
>>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/appendixA.html#audiodescdef>
>>>>>> transcripts is available. [How to meet 1.1.6
>>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20060117/Overvie
>>>>>> w.html#text-equiv-text-doc> ]
>>>>> This sounds fine to me, but I think that we should make sure that we
>>>>> accept the case where a transcript includes links to audio descriptions
>>>>> interspersed, as an alternative to the actual description text.    For
>>>>> example:
>>>>>  
>>>>> Transcript:
>>>>> This is the first spoken transcript text. This is more transcript.  (<a
>>>>> href="#desc1">description 1</a>).  This is more transcript.  Blah blah
>>>>> blah....
>>>>>  
>>>>> Descriptions:
>>>>> <a name="desc1" id="desc1">1. </a>This is the first description
>>>>>  
>>>>> This would improve the experience for many users,and while it is untested,
>>>>> I'd like to make sure that it is acceptable to use.
>>>>>  
>>>>> AWK
>