Fwd: [MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2022-07-18

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
> Subject: [MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2022-07-18
> Date: July 19, 2022 at 6:09:57 PM EDT
> To: public-credentials@w3.org
> Resent-From: public-credentials@w3.org
> 
> Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!
> 
> The transcript for the call is now available here:
> 
> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2022-07-18-vc-education/
> 
> Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
> Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:
> 
> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2022-07-18-vc-education/audio.ogg
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> VC for Education Task Force Transcript for NaN-NaN-NaN
> 
> Agenda:
>  https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=%5BAGENDA&period_month=Invalid Date&period_year=NaN&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-credentials&resultsperpage=20&sortby=date
> Topics:
>  1. IP Note
>  2. Call Notes
>  3. Introductions & Reintroductions
>  4. Announcements
>  5. Main Topic: JFF VC-EDU Plugfest #2
> Organizer:
>  Kerri Lemoie
> Scribe:
>  Our Robot Overlords
> Present:
>  Kerri Lemoie, Sharon Leu, Jeff O - HumanOS, David Chadwick, Manu 
>  Sporny, Simone Ravaoli, Razvan Braghesiu (Lightpass), Tim Bouma, 
>  xander @ ASU, Marty Reed, Kimberly Linson, Stuart Freeman, TimG, 
>  John Kuo, Deb Everhart, Zach -RANDA, Jonathan Bethune, Taylor 
>  Kendall, Brandon Muramatsu, Joe Kaplan, Kaliya, Dmitri Zagidulin, 
>  Tim Dutta, Andy Griebel, Mark (RANDA), Phil Barker, Jon St. John, 
>  Akshar Patel, Colin, Learning Economy, Jenn G, Geun-Hyung, Kayode 
>  Ezike, JoAdel, Nate Otto, Rebecca Busacca, Territorium, Phil L 
>  (P1), Keith W (RANDA), Geun-Hyung Kim, Matthias Gottlieb (TUM), 
>  Chris Wilson, Chandi Cumaranatunge, James Chartrand, Julie D, 
>  Andy Miller, Colin (LEF), Oliver Terbu, Naomi, Brian
> 
> <kerri_lemoie> Hello! Will get started shortly.
> <kerri_lemoie> @Manu - will mention the RWOT paper is part of 
>  announcements.
> <manu_sporny> /me nods.
> Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Hello everyone welcome to the July 18th VC edgy 
>  you task force called today's topic is about the JF F VC edgy 
>  plugfest number 2 and when we get started with some of our 
>  boilerplate stuff and announcements and then we have chair and 
>  Lou here with us to help us walk through what is going to happen 
>  with the plans are for plugfest to and to start Gathering your 
>  questions so that we can them and get.
> Kerri Lemoie:  To get some answers.
> 
> Topic: IP Note
> 
> Kerri Lemoie:  OK first IP note anyone can participate in these 
>  calls everyone is welcome however all sensitive contributions to 
>  NECC work items even outside the BBC Edge you should be done by 
>  members of the ccg with full IP our agreement signed to do this 
>  you first should join W3 and make sure you have an account and 
>  then you can use this link to join the ccg.
> Kerri Lemoie: https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/join
> Kerri Lemoie:  Faced with the ccg and I'm selling Peter problems 
>  there we go.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Ccg and read the agreement.
> 
> Topic: Call Notes
> 
> Kerri Lemoie:  He s these calls are recorded both audio and video 
>  today we're only really going to have audio I don't think we'll 
>  have any slides to present we're also using the chat you're going 
>  to see that also we are transcribing this we have a robot 
>  transcriber that does the best that it's can you can fix it if 
>  you see something that it doesn't understand I hope it learn if 
>  you see a term that is incorrect you can do a substitution you 
>  can type S.
> Kerri Lemoie:   Forward slash.
> Kerri Lemoie:  The wrong word and then the correct word as I'm 
>  putting in the chat right now.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Oh so we'll use the cue system on these calls so 
>  if you're new to these calls how that works is that you put a q+ 
>  in the chat to add yourself to the queue and then if you decide 
>  you no longer want to speak you put cute - and then what we do is 
>  we check the queue and we go in the order that our folks are 
>  queued up.
> 
> Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions
> 
> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay let's start with some introductions and 
>  reintroduction this is there anyone that's new to the call today 
>  that would like to introduce themselves if so you can cure 
>  yourself up.
> Kerri Lemoie:  And I'll make the same call up for any 
>  reintroductions or updates on work that anyone's doing any 
>  changes or anything you'd like to fill us in on here's your 
>  opportunity to do so.
> <john_marquez> I'm new, attempting to queue
> Kerri Lemoie:  Marty here in the cute pig before.
> Marty Reed:  Yeah so only because Dan blickensderfer therefore 
>  from on a deck and I'll sit on LinkedIn but the we 3 and C LR 2.0 
>  work groups have voted for to move to candidate final for the for 
>  both the specs so there's this.
> Marty Reed:   Security review that.
> Marty Reed:  To be done and some internal work at one edtech but 
>  then we should expect to see a can final public and up there I'm 
>  going to say mid-august so.
> Kerri Lemoie:  It's great thank you for giving us that update 
>  Marty here when question I have in terms of the conversations 
>  were having with the plugfest today for plugfest number one we 
>  used a specific context file so that we could you stay away from 
>  any changes that were happening in the meantime but would you say 
>  the context file for obv 3 is steady enough to use now.
> Marty Reed:  I would say once the internal review has been done 
>  and the candidate final has been announced publicly then yes.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay we'll figure out how to navigate that thank 
>  you.
> Marty Reed:  No there's no yeah but I think generally speaking 
>  yes the suspect that is out there right now is stable.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay they're very close everyone in case you're 
>  wondering there they're very similar so I'm it's not that big of 
>  a deal I was just curious about that.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you    in the queuethe queue.
> Jon St. John:  Oh yes so my name is John Marquez I'm really 
>  looking forward to learning today my background I'm currently CTO 
>  at Fallon PBC implementing a verifiable credential wallet with 
>  Adam and I'm just really here to soak up as much information as I 
>  can and kind of get in where I fit and.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you very much appreciate that.
> <simone_ravaioli> Welcome John !
> Kerri Lemoie:  I'm making some corrections in the chat for the a 
>  transcriber okay I will stop that all right anyone else here hey 
>  Dmitri you have the floor.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Wait so just to double-check are we going to 
>  have a separate announcements section or is this a joint 
>  introductions announcements.
> 
> Topic: Announcements
> 
> Kerri Lemoie:  This is just introductions and reintroductions but 
>  I can start announcements right now and then we can move on to 
>  that.
> Kerri Lemoie:  You can go first if you'd like since you're 
>  already you already have before.
> Simone Ravaoli: https://www.weboftrust.info/next-event-page.html
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Okay alright so so quick announcement so 
>  rebooting web of trust conference which is really cool on 
>  conference where you collaborate with others to write a paper at 
>  the end of the conference that gets published so everybody web of 
>  trust is happening in late September in the Netherlands this year 
>  so the reason I bring it up is that the early Advance paper 
>  discount the date is tomorrow.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Ink on the 19th.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Were you planning to attend the conference 
>  please consider writing a paragraph of two or two of an advanced 
>  paper and submitting it for a discount on the tickets that's it.
> Kerri Lemoie:  DJ can I ask you a question about that.
> Kerri Lemoie:  How final does the advance paper need to be there 
>  was a it was submitted tomorrow as a draft could it be worked on 
>  later.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yes correct that's right yeah so the the 
>  they're not looking for you know like print-ready paper it's 
>  definitely what you described.
> Kerri Lemoie:  I think it's no thank you.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Clear you have the floor.
> Kaliya: I'm needed High I wanted to share about three events we 
>  have coming up in August last summer we did this as well the 
>  internet identity Workshop is hosting two special topic events 
>  one is August 4th called The Business of SSI really supporting 
>  folks looking at business models and adoption issues from that 
>  lens being able to have a forum to.
> Kaliya:  connect so it's a half day.
> <dmitri_z> IIW is awesome  - highly recommend attending if you 
>  haven’t already !
> Kaliya: And Conference and then we're hosting on August 9th in 
>  Asian time zones which means it's August 8 in the evening here in 
>  North America digital identity across Asia to support folks who 
>  are working in Asia and Asian time zones being able to 
>  collaborate and connect and then we were thinking about doing it 
>  event online.
> Kaliya:  like web 3.
> <phil_l_(p1)> RWoT paper guidelines (very simple):
> Kaliya: And identity and then the decentralized social network 
>  paper came out and a whole flurry of activity happened around 
>  that so Heidi and I hide he's the producer of I w-was me are 
>  collaborating with radical exchange and they're hosting a two-day 
>  event on August 16th and August 18th called exploring.
> Kaliya: For a decentralized societies I'm on my phone so I'll 
>  figure out over the course of this getting links to all those 
>  into the chat.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Great thank you Clea.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Deji you have before.
> Jenn_G: Hi can you hear me.
> Simone Ravaoli: 
>  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/the-business-of-self-sovereign-identity-ssi-an-iiw-12-day-workshop-tickets-367890268697
> Jenn_G: Sorry it's a new setup yes I'm based in st. Louis Midwest 
>  cyber security management and kind of the conjunction of 
>  management and Technology right now I've been dialing into these 
>  calls through Jeff oh for about a month or so now and I did just 
>  purchase the ticket for the iiw upcoming in November.
> Jenn_G: You're be here and to attend that and right now just kind 
>  of trying to stay informed as I navigate the current and upcoming 
>  environments here in the Midwest so thank you.
> <kaliya> What protections are in place to address the systemic 
>  ongoing issues RWoT has with women and people of color and how 
>  they experience the event?
> Kerri Lemoie:  It's great thank you thanks for joining us 
>  welcome.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay the queue is empty so I'm going to just make 
>  another a few other announcements tomorrow for those of you who 
>  are interested because I know this is come up a lot the ccg is 
>  hosting a call on web 5 I'm putting a link to this here.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Delete to the email announcement case you haven't 
>  seen it.
> <kerri_lemoie> web 5 CCG: 
>  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2022Jul/0048.html
> Kerri Lemoie:  And I was just starting in on that I'm looking 
>  forward to we were talking about trying to explore that as part 
>  of this call to and if you can make sense to get started to 
>  understand what that is all about.
> <kerri_lemoie> displaying credentials: 
>  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/vc-ed/issues/16
> Kerri Lemoie:  Next my name is on the closet make calling him to 
>  this to do this but their digital bizarre put out a paper in his 
>  protocol on rendering verifiable credentials and this is a topic 
>  that we've been talking about every CH you actually have an open 
>  issue about about displaying credentials here put this in the 
>  chat.
> Kerri Lemoie:  You want to just come on real briefly and just 
>  tell us about you know that this paper and then you know your 
>  thoughts behind it.
> <kerri_lemoie> Link to Manu's email: 
>  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2022Jul/0054.html
> Manu Sporny:  Sure and thank you for the link I was like 
>  scrambling to find it let me go ahead and do just a real quick 
>  screen share promise to keep this short so there's a new 
>  rebooting paper that I put forward around rendering verifiable 
>  credentials hopefully everyone can see this the idea here is that 
>  there are many Market verticals right now that are.
> Manu Sporny:  Asking this question and and.
> Manu Sporny:  Have a seat.
> Manu Sporny:  Question right so like Dimitri and Kerry raised 
>  this issue in the VC edu issue tracker months ago we have been 
>  discussing this for years and so there's a suggestion that you 
>  know hey let's get a let's get a first iteration of this thing 
>  written down so the idea here is that if you have a verifiable 
>  credential you want to be able to express it in a variety of 
>  different ways meaning visually maybe through audio and then 
>  maybe even through.
> Manu Sporny:   Something like.
> Kerri Lemoie: Paper: 
>  https://github.com/WebOfTrustInfo/rwot11-the-hague/blob/master/advance-readings/rendering-verifiable-credentials.md
> Manu Sporny:  Rail their accessibility needs that come along with 
>  rendering these things and we just need to make sure that we're 
>  inclusive when we display things so there's a paper out called 
>  rendering verifiable credentials we're going to work on it at the 
>  next rebooting the web trust 11 in The Hague in the Netherlands 
>  and so yeah take a take a look at the paper the idea is we're 
>  thinking of adding a field to the verifiable credentials data 
>  format that gives.
> Manu Sporny:   Gives clients ready.
> Manu Sporny:  Options so if you wanted to render something as 
>  visually rich as a University degree certificate or a 
>  identification card or a certificate of origin for a vehicle or 
>  produce we're trying to provide a mechanism to do that that's 
>  easy to implement for everyone built on standards all that kind 
>  of stuff while also ensuring that you're not disenfranchised 
>  people that.
> Manu Sporny:  Site needs hearing needs or people that don't have 
>  sight and can't hear as well how do we render these things for 
>  those individuals so that they can look at it that's it.
> Kerri Lemoie:  It's great Maria is really great you don't even 
>  Beyond accessibility which is critical of the audio VCI dead me 
>  and really considered how that could be used in all sorts of 
>  other circumstances to that's pretty neat.
> <kaliya> Business of SSI - 
>  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/the-business-of-self-sovereign-identity-ssi-an-iiw-12-day-workshop-tickets-367890268697
> <manu_sporny> Please join us and help shape the rendering VCs 
>  work! I forgot to mention that!
> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay the queue is empty and the last thing I just 
>  wanted to mention and feel free to keep yourself up if you have 
>  any other announcements that if you haven't joined our mailing 
>  list it is a good place to go we're going to start talking about 
>  plugfest to and most of our discussions will happen on this 
>  mailing list I'm going to put a link to it here.
> Kerri Lemoie:   And the chat.
> <kerri_lemoie> vc-edu mail list: 
>  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/
> <sharon_leu> In the EDU use case, it's important to remember that 
>  accredited institutions of higher ed have legal requirements re 
>  digital engagement: http://udloncampus.cast.org/page/policy_legal
> Kerri Lemoie:  This is the iPad page and add the top of this page 
>  is a link for subscribe which is a mail to link and I'm you can 
>  add your email address.
> <kaliya> Digital identity across Asia - august 9th - 
>  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/digital-identity-across-asia-an-iiw-12-day-workshop-tickets-374391784907
> <tayken> Sorry, late anncmt: BadgeSummit (Aug 1-2) Boulder, CO
> Taylor Kendall: https://www.thebadgesummit.com/
> 
> Topic: Main Topic: JFF VC-EDU Plugfest #2
> 
> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay so our main topic for today we can get 
>  started on that now is the jmf we see a Jeep like that's number 
>  two and what we're going to do today is just give you an overall 
>  conceptual understanding of or try to fit could be a conceptual 
>  understanding of what the what you're trying to accomplish with 
>  life path number to talk about some Milestone dates that we are 
>  working on and then also gather your questions let me not have 
>  all the answers today but we'd love to queue up your.
> Kerri Lemoie:   Questions and be able to get back to you on them.
> Kerri Lemoie:  These are certainly of course as from jmf and ran 
>  blood tests number one and is here to talk to us about plugfest 
>  number two Sharon wanna take it from here.
> Sharon Leu:  Yes thank you can everyone hear me.
> <kaliya> Exploring Digital Identity for Decentralized Societies 
>  Connecting the dots around Web3 / Metaverse Identity 
>  Conversations a RadicalxChange Open Space unConference  
>  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/exploring-digital-identity-for-decentralized-societies-tickets-385643188157?mc_cid=2321939e22&mc_eid=UNIQID
> Sharon Leu:  Okay perfect so it's great to meet all of you or 
>  hello for those of you who I've already met my name is Sharon Lou 
>  and with an organization called jobs for the future we are a 
>  National not-for-profit Organization that's interested in 
>  promoting economic advancement and one of the things that it's 
>  through the sort of transformation of the education and Workforce 
>  systems one of the things that we have been thinking a lot about 
>  is digital credentials as.
> Sharon Leu:   A means of acknowledge.
> <kaliya> August 16 and 18
> Sharon Leu:  Get the abilities and skills of individuals and how 
>  that might be foundational for a more Equitable Workforce and 
>  education pathway for anyone so thank you for working with us on 
>  plugfest one I thought so just as a rundown we've been having a 
>  number of we have envisioned a number of plugfest similar to how 
>  an eel John Ram them with scip but thinking about the collection 
>  and sharing of education and Workforce credentials or.
> Sharon Leu:   Or credentialed in those.
> <kaliya> I’ll also share that DWeb Camp is happening August 24-28
> Sharon Leu:  Context on June 9th we had our first plugfest it was 
>  not really an interoperability demonstration as much as sort of 
>  an introduction to the idea of an interoperability demonstration 
>  where wallet implementers displayed a verifiable credentials in 
>  their wallet sort of moving forward we have two more of these 
>  planned over the next year and you know as the first one wrapped 
>  up we post a.
> Sharon Leu:   A question to the group which.
> Sharon Leu:  Like what how should we order the next step and 
>  there was some amount of discussion on on the list serve as well 
>  as sort of offline about focusing on issuing versus focusing on 
>  verifying and I think we discussed as a group with the co-chairs 
>  of this group as well as some others and I think ultimately we 
>  settled on focusing on this idea of issue as the next Focus area 
>  and I think there were just a couple of.
> Sharon Leu:   The main.
> Sharon Leu:  What I mean there are a lot of practical reasons for 
>  why you would pick one or the other and at the end of the day it 
>  came down to in addition to demonstrating interoperability of the 
>  credentials jmf and our funders in this exercise have a real 
>  interest in establishing the utility of credentials for 
>  advancement and in that case the closer that we can get to the 
>  use of real credentials in a live production environment and the 
>  the more.
> Sharon Leu:   We can demonstrate that use of.
> Sharon Leu:  Bible credentials actually impacts the lives of the 
>  populations that we are concerned with and what that means is 
>  that in the verification step it is a little bit more than a 
>  wallet displaying a green check mark what we want to demonstrate 
>  is that actually the meaning of you know all of the metadata in 
>  contained within the verifiable credential itself has utility for 
>  the person holding the credential as they pursue their 
>  additional.
> Sharon Leu:   These and this will take us some time.
> Sharon Leu:  The kind of use cases that we think would 
>  demonstrate this and so in order to buy ourselves some time and 
>  to build up to this we thought let's focus on issuer next so the 
>  exercise for plugfest to will be to display in your wallet 
>  multiple credentials issued by multiple parties and I think the 
>  number that we had picked was too so in order to the record the.
> Sharon Leu:   Nicole I.
> Sharon Leu:  Up for plugfest to is display two different 
>  credentials to credentials issued by two different credential 
>  issuers and we're not going to take for you I think what we're 
>  not trying to do is force you into a different protocol but just 
>  using the protocol that you already your wallet can already use 
>  so we will get into this a little bit later about self-selecting 
>  into three camps but I just want to say that's the general 
>  overview.
> Sharon Leu:  Is there like are there any questions about that 
>  before I continue with some of the like Logistics.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah as soon as the key right now so let's see my 
>  nose in the queue we do have go ahead good money.
> Manu Sporny:  Yeah just most of that sounds pretty 
>  straightforward Sharon I mean you know we will be focusing on 
>  issuing focusing on getting stuff in the wallet and displaying 
>  from two different issuers that feel straightforward are the well 
>  I guess it's anyone in the community allowed to provide 
>  infrastructure so specifically I'm thinking about you know we 
>  just launched this chap EIEIO site that allows you to issue.
> Manu Sporny:   Issue into credentials using.
> Manu Sporny:  Sorry into digital wallets using the chappie NVC 
>  API protocols we are contemplating allowing well we are going to 
>  add multiple different issue or back end so that anyone 
>  supporting the VC API issuance protocol can issue credentials is 
>  that kind of are you looking for that kind of infrastructure 
>  right now to smooth things along or are you kind of like that.
> Manu Sporny:   At the.
> Manu Sporny:  Whatever they want to do any thoughts on that what 
>  about infrastructure here.
> <kerri_lemoie> I'll be tracking all the questions
> <deb_everhart> +q
> Sharon Leu:  Yes okay so that's a great question and I was hoping 
>  to punt that until a later week but I think what we'll do is 
>  we'll do this in two parts will do two separate calls that will 
>  occur simultaneously one is obviously for participation as a 
>  wallet implementer but separately we're also going to do a call 
>  for issuer so I think that that is when we're going to start 
>  taking a look at what infrastructures already out there and 
>  probably lean on some of the tools that you all have already 
>  developed to make sure.
> Sharon Leu:   Sure that there's a.
> <brandon_muramatsu> I've been presuming DCC will provide a 
>  VC-API-based issuer
> Sharon Leu:  You regardless of which the issuing protocols you 
>  select.
> Kerri Lemoie:  But I didn't have a cure.
> Manu Sporny: +1 Brandon, good to know, that should allow you to 
>  plug right into the chapi.io framework (as an  example)
> Sharon Leu:  Dimitri did you want to answer that question is that 
>  why you popped in.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Are the quick answer is no you can definitely 
>  be just a wallet or just an issue or two.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  So as Sharon mentioned we're going to put out 
>  the call for both we recognize that most of the participants have 
>  both a wallet and it sure but if you have just the one that's 
>  totally fine as Sharon mentioned as we'll discuss further we 
>  recognize that there are at least three and more protocol camp.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  That we see CGV Capi openid connect 
>  foundations opens the next family of issuing protocols and Gifts 
>  did Cam presentations Change Plus others so.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Here at the wall vendor don't have a bond 
>  issuer we will we will provide.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  You're more issuers within the protocol family 
>  that you can show interoperability with.
> Kerri Lemoie: VC-API: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/vc-api/
> <kerri_lemoie> OpenID Connect:  
>  https://openid.net/wordpress-content/uploads/2022/05/OIDF-Whitepaper_OpenID-for-Verifiable-Credentials_FINAL_2022-05-12.pdf
> <brandon_muramatsu> @manu, we've been running one based on our 
>  open source sign-and-verify; we'll add documentation and more 
>  support around it
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  That's wonderful to hear.
> <kerri_lemoie> DID-Comm Presentation Exchange: 
>  https://identity.foundation/presentation-exchange/
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  I'll be there.
> Kerri Lemoie:  I think you are David see.
> Kerri Lemoie:  That was you.
> <manu_sporny> Looking forward to reading that (and hopefully 
>  integrating with it), Brandon.
> Kerri Lemoie:  I didn't either let's get snow thank you Deb you 
>  have the floor please.
> Deb Everhart:  So I think this is maybe a clarification and 
>  question in order to make sure we're making the central to the 
>  learner the wallet holder should we be using language that is 
>  about some you know the wallet holder can accept into their 
>  wallet credentials that have been issued from more than one party 
>  just too.
> Deb Everhart:   Just you know make sure.
> <dmitri_z> wow good point , re language
> Deb Everhart:  We're focusing on that individuals empowerment and 
>  therefore also I think that you know even though being able to 
>  transfer credentials from one wallet to another may not 
>  technically be the one of the requirements for this plugfest if a 
>  person is able to do that that would be another way of displaying 
>  credentials from more than one issuer in the same wallet is that.
> Sharon Leu:  Say that last part again I feel like I maybe lost 
>  the train of thought on that.
> Deb Everhart:  So I guess I'm just saying there there could be 
>  you know a person has a wallet and two different issuers give 
>  them offers for credentials that they can take those offers in 
>  the same wallet that's one way of getting to credentials from two 
>  different issues into the same wallet another way would be for a 
>  person to be able to move a credential from another wallet into 
>  this wallet that has a first credential.
> Deb Everhart:   In it.
> Deb Everhart:  Even though that might not be a requirement it 
>  would be another way of displaying to credentials from different 
>  issuers in the same wallet.
> Sharon Leu:  Yes ish we can I think that that's really 
>  interesting part of what we'd like to see as part of the third 
>  one but taking the incremental small steps I feel like that we're 
>  just going to focus on whether a while it can accept to 
>  credentials.
> Deb Everhart:  Right right yeah and I get that that's the scope 
>  for this but if someone wanted to do it as a credential brought 
>  in from another wallet I presume that would also meet the 
>  criteria of to credentials from different issuers in the same 
>  wallet.
> Sharon Leu:  We can talk about that we can we can talk about that 
>  I think that it's slightly different but you're right 
>  functionally it has the same outcome for the individual and we 
>  might want to consider that but we haven't specifically scoped 
>  the technical tasks yet so as we do that we'll definitely discuss 
>  that.
> Kerri Lemoie:  I was I was going to say the same answer Sharon I 
>  mean in part as part of plugfest would we had some stretch goals 
>  and it's something we could talk about that being a stretch goal 
>  for this one so I'm cute I'm saving that question so we can talk 
>  about it.
> Simone Ravaoli:  Everyone just wanted to emphasize the fact that 
>  even though we're focusing on the issue as where we would be very 
>  eager to unboard issue as that are not natively in already during 
>  VCS and so I'm referring to the traditional magic platforms that 
>  are issuing the millions of credentials now and that with the 
>  Advent of ob3 in a will now be able to share file credentials and 
>  so we very much look forward to I guess in.
> Simone Ravaoli:   Encourage them to join this plugfest.
> Simone Ravaoli:  So that ultimately we connect them into this 
>  journey around the shin verifiable credentials as much as we want 
>  to look at wallet providers I became you know a credential can be 
>  exchanged between wallets or walnuts they need to show the 
>  ability to receive from two different issuers I like to see the 
>  issue from the other angle so I'd like to see traditional issue 
>  as like being able to issue into two different kinds.
> Simone Ravaoli:   Or wallets or maybe that's you know bias.
> Simone Ravaoli:  That's how you know initial perspective.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Money you are you're in the key twice you can have 
>  the floor.
> Kerri Lemoie: +1 Simone
> Manu Sporny:  Yeah sorry I was taking taking notes on which 
>  questions to add so these are just questions with no no need to 
>  answer them right now the first one is whether or not did 
>  authentication is going to be required in the protocol so when 
>  you you know go to an issue and you wanted to issue something to 
>  you are we going to include data on Earth or not and then the 
>  second question.
> Manu Sporny:  Aaron you mentioned that there would be maybe 
>  multiple verifiable potentials and plugfest to I'm just wondering 
>  what those would be would they just be two variations on an open 
>  badge or are we looking for something else so on and so forth.
> <manu_sporny> Ok, thanks.
> Sharon Leu:  I think that I'll just quickly try to answer the 
>  second one by saying that I think we're going to if we can still 
>  use an open badge in the version 3 which is I think why carry 
>  Brad brought her question up to Marty earlier so we'll take a 
>  look into that and then and then share more when we know.
> <manu_sporny> Right, thanks.
> Kerri Lemoie:  You hear of keys empty right now.
> Kerri Lemoie:  And I think that we probably are going to do did 
>  ask requirements I must do just like noting that down so we can 
>  get our FAQ together and answer later.
> Sharon Leu:  I guess well I was going to talk about like timing 
>  and Logistics but if you feel like there's other things that we 
>  should talk about because those are just you know timing and 
>  Logistics.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah I do have a list of dates if you if you want 
>  to go over this debate I got you have this to the maybe we could 
>  back into them starting with November.
> Sharon Leu:  Yeah so I yeah okay so we haven't figured out 
>  exactly what this is going to be like obviously some of you 
>  participated in the first one and real and I think learned that 
>  the like in person hybrid skills like need Improvement so if you 
>  want to send me an e-mail separately about your suggestions for 
>  how one might sort of curate that kind of experience for anyone 
>  who is whether in person or online send me an email and let me 
>  know but.
> Sharon Leu:   Overall I think what we're aiming for is over.
> Sharon Leu:  17Th was just the day before iiw start and I know 
>  that several of us will be there in person and so that is the 
>  root of my like how can we improve this experience for everyone 
>  question Carrie do you want to add something to that.
> Kerri Lemoie:  I'm just going to put that day in the chat and for 
>  everybody that be November 16.
> <kerri_lemoie> Nov 16 - IIW
> Kerri Lemoie:  I got it yep.
> <kaliya> @dmitri - What protections are in place to address the 
>  systemic ongoing issues RWoT has with women and people of color 
>  and how they experience the event?
> <kerri_lemoie> Aug 15 – open registration
> Sharon Leu:  Yeah I guess so okay it's whatever day it is that is 
>  before I W starts I'm not great with dates so okay cool so we 
>  want to give as much lead time as possible before that and so 
>  what we're going to do is honor around August 15th we're going to 
>  do the open call for a wallet implementers to participate 
>  simultaneously will do the sort of review and open call for 
>  issuers to.
> Sharon Leu:  So Kate still on.
> Sharon Leu:  So that's sort of the date to note and we'll try to 
>  have our sort of participation documents ready by then they're 
>  not quite ready now because I think we still have a few things 
>  that we want to work out ahead of that though we're going to try 
>  to have like a more technical am a on August 8 and then I guess 
>  Dimitri has volunteered kindly to go over the three different 
>  protocols at some point I think TVD.
> Sharon Leu:  And that's it from my end scary is there anything 
>  that I've missed.
> Kerri Lemoie:  No that was right if you want to provide the 
>  overall our overall approach and these dates and then see if 
>  there's any other questions see what else you think you need to 
>  know your that will help us inform you so I'm David over here in 
>  the queue go ahead.
> Sharon Leu:  Okay I'm going to let someone else answer that 
>  question but I will say one other logistics point that I forgot 
>  that you prompted me on David which is not everyone that 
>  participated the first round was able to do it and that's okay 
>  and not everyone who not every wallet Implement like not every 
>  wallet implementer was able to produce a demo right and so what 
>  we want to do is continue to make this as open as possible and so 
>  for anyone who did not attempt to participate.
> Sharon Leu:   In the first place fast.
> Sharon Leu:  Getting the jff badge into their wallet is sort of 
>  our ticket to entry for the second one but it's going to be 
>  slightly different for you if you participated in the first one 
>  and I will turn it over to Dimitri to say more words about that.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Thanks Sharon so good question David so first 
>  of all we're still working on issuing the badges for everyone 
>  since we have such a plethora of different did methods and so on 
>  but to answer your question we were hoping just to email it to 
>  you right and then you can get into your wallets.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:   However you got.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  The badge during the plugfest so we absolutely 
>  recognize that.
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Chewing into wallet is what we're going to be 
>  testing for November many people aren't there yet so we're just 
>  going to email the badges.
> <manu_sporny> I'm loving the VC-over-email protocol. :)
> Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah so we'll be issuing JWT or linked data 
>  credentials depending on your preference that you filled out on 
>  the spreadsheet.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Awesome in a job where I probably need to take the 
>  floor I just want to make one correction that I got the iaw date 
>  wrong IW runs remember 15th through the 17th so we're looking on 
>  meeting Monday the 14th.
> John Kuo:  You probably aren't really prepared to answer this 
>  question but is there a preference on a participant being an 
>  issuer or receiver or can a participant even be both potentially.
> Kerri Lemoie:  That's a good question Sharon answer now or later 
>  I would think you could be both.
> Sharon Leu:  I think you could be both but the key is that it has 
>  to be two different ones so if you are in any capacity 
>  participating as a wallet implementer you can issue to yourself 
>  but that doesn't really count as interop really.
> Sharon Leu:  Okay I don't know why.
> John Kuo:  I kind of actually made that assumption that you 
>  couldn't issue teens oh but you know I was didn't even bother 
>  asking that because I assume that that wouldn't be interrupt.
> Sharon Leu:  Cool so TV.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah we did that as part of a plug Crestwood but 
>  for plugfest two we really want to encourage more Interactive.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Sorry go ahead shared Universe book are you.
> Sharon Leu:  No is this going to say more on that later.
> Kerri Lemoie:  JoAdel yo have the floor.
> JoAdel: Hi so unfortunately we weren't able to participate in the 
>  first plugfest I was just wondering is there a way that we could 
>  get either the email or whatever we need to kind of pass the 
>  entry requirement to participate in plug this too.
> Sharon Leu:  Yes we don't have a formal process for that but 
>  effectively it will be that you send us the preferred method of 
>  having a VC issue to you and we issue a to you display it will 
>  have a little bit more detail about that later but I will 
>  definitely note to send you a specific email and we'll also 
>  public will put like instructions on the list serve as well.
> Kerri Lemoie:  And you know for a plugfest wine we had a web page 
>  that we hosted at BC edu so we'll do the same thing for plugfest 
>  to and we can get that out there to everyone and feel free to use 
>  the mailing list to post more questions and we will take it from 
>  there.
> Kerri Lemoie:  I'm right now the Q is still empty does anybody 
>  else have any other questions.
> <oliver_terbu> what is the "issued" column in the spreadsheet?
> Manu Sporny:  Thanks so coordination are we going to coordinate 
>  through a mixture of vce do calls and plugfest specific calls 
>  both will shift the one versus the other what are the thoughts 
>  there.
> Manu Sporny: +1 To coordinate on VC EDU
> Sharon Leu:  I kind of want to put this question to Kerri but I 
>  think mostly will try to coordinate on the VC edu mostly because 
>  okay so like it's kind of hard with multiple strands of 
>  conversations going on and we want to drive we want to sort of 
>  centralized all the conversations to the extent that we can and 
>  make sure that there are no real offline conversations that 
>  everything is open.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah exactly probably what we'll do in terms of 
>  email communication is used to be see edgy mailing list so that 
>  you know we can communicate in a place where we can like look up 
>  the emails me it's great that we have that archive and also so 
>  that those who aren't participating in the class can learn from 
>  our questions and what we're doing we have a lot of great 
>  questions that came up during plug class 1 so I most of them will 
>  be there.
> Kerri Lemoie:   Anna bcig week.
> Deb Everhart: +1 To coordinate here so it's all in the same place
> Kerri Lemoie:  Eating's I'm guessing here will probably have like 
>  one or two like a cohort meetings if we need to and we'll see 
>  we'll figure that out as we go.
> Sharon Leu:  Yeah I think that's right.
> <sharon_leu> @Oliver - once the email with the badge is sent.
> <kim> !!
> Kerri Lemoie:  I don't see any other questions in here I am super 
>  amped about this and we did a lot with plugfest one there are a 
>  lot of new people who were introduced to be see a Jew and open 
>  Badges and then we had a lot of open badges folks who are 
>  interested in learning more about VCS and so I'm excited to see 
>  more and more of that as we go I mean I think these kinds of 
>  initiatives are really have been really very helpful and useful 
>  and I'm each time we do it I think they get even better.
> Kerri Lemoie:   Filled long you're in the Kia.
> Phil_L_(P1): Yeah can you hear me okay I'm just wondering if it 
>  occurred to me that one of the things that might it's not a 
>  technical thing per se but it would be helpful or be interesting 
>  at least to see if we could invite a couple of people who are 
>  sort of in the in the discipline area of being ethnologist 
>  interested in this kind of changing social space too.
> Phil_L_(P1): To participate and give them and encourage them to 
>  reach out to the different teams if they have questions and such 
>  with the goal of getting them to write up from there no Centric 
>  perspective the transition that seems to be implied by this 
>  approach of sharing credentials about each other and the 
>  community that's involved so look I'm just trying to.
> Phil_L_(P1):  wondering wondering if there.
> Phil_L_(P1): There might be a couple of journalists or 
>  ethnographic non refers that would be interested in this space if 
>  we reached out to them and whether that would be a welcome 
>  activity.
> Sharon Leu:  If you have recommendations on people who you think 
>  might be good for this please definitely send them I think one of 
>  the things that we have been doing is we have a part we jmf is 
>  partnered with a couple of different organizations for this 
>  project overall like this using using data and digital credential 
>  links project and one and and two of the partners I think you 
>  know fill our Brookings as well.
> Sharon Leu:   Laz digital promise.
> Sharon Leu:  And one of the key things that Brookings has been 
>  working on is how to describe the impact of using learning and 
>  employment records and whether this kind of credential like 
>  portability that we are driving towards on a technical level 
>  actually can have impact on populations of that we are interested 
>  in so there will be some of that going on sort of Honor 
>  programmatic level probably not as much on a technical level but 
>  I think you're right that it would be an interesting 
>  conversation.
> Sharon Leu:   Ation to try to bring those together.
> Phil_L_(P1): Yeah that no one person that's a Pulitzer fellow 
>  whose area of specialty has been more in the applications of AI 
>  to to job workflow processes at NYU that might be a candidate for 
>  this kind of thing but.
> Sharon Leu:  Greek thank you.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay I don't see anyone else in the queue and I 
>  think you've gone over the questions that we have now Sharon or 
>  actually I should call and Demetrius ammonia do you have anything 
>  else you'd like that to you while we're here.
> Simone Ravaoli:  Yeah for on my side I think reiterating what I 
>  was saying earlier I think it's important that we look at issuers 
>  that are tangential to this community so the ones that are 
>  currently to you know not verifiable credentials this is the 
>  opportunity for them to onboard and leveraging you know the tiny 
>  pool of hopefully be 3 so if.
> Simone Ravaoli:   If this community are people.
> Simone Ravaoli:  Are in those organizations will send out a call 
>  for issuers but certainly I'm sure you may have questions around 
>  how you engage with those three protocols already so that's all 
>  fair in terms of you're starting to ask those questions and see 
>  how you know what's the the path to onboarding so definitely you 
>  know be vocal about that and gauge Arabi.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you spam and eggs calling me out of order in 
>  the cubic this following up to some money question.
> Nate_Otto_(he/him): Yeah I just wanted to mention some related 
>  times to this and support from one edtech formerly IMS the IMs 
>  quarterly meeting will be right around the same time in 
>  mid-november I'm not sure on the exact dates and that is the goal 
>  time for I think the finalization of the open badges V3 and CLR 
>  2.0 specifications and also in addition leading up to that there 
>  is like a group of one-eyed cat.
> Nate_Otto_(he/him):  members who are.
> Nate_Otto_(he/him): Of marketing coordination push to those 
>  existing issuers for 2.0 and helping create sources on how to 
>  upgrade from 2.0 3.0 so I'm sure there will be plenty of 
>  opportunity to connect these efforts as things move forward but 
>  there probably will be some good support for doing what's money 
>  and suggesting getting some of those existing open by this 2.0 
>  issuers on board.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Great actually that's why I keep myself up to so 
>  Charming to calling you in one second we're thinking about 
>  reaching out to issuers to Nate if you don't mind putting out the 
>  call at edtech went to check to see if anyone is interested in 
>  have them reach out to us specifically those who may not be on 
>  these calls but are on those I would love to hear from them so 
>  they could be part of this this this plugfest specifically before 
>  then.
> Nate_Otto_(he/him): It sounds good and Marty I'll enlist you to 
>  try and do the same.
> Marty Reed: :+1:
> John Kuo:  Hi so I'm at my question might be leading into 
>  logistical 14 Sharon I was taking a quick glance over the 
>  previous participant cohorts and trying to see if there was going 
>  to be enough people who share the same protocol stack that we use 
>  to create like a decent enough number of people to exchange and I 
>  think that there's a total of three so we would be.
> John Kuo:   You know I'm listening.
> John Kuo:  You know some people will have a like a large group of 
>  interrupt participants and others will be quite prescribed I 
>  guess I guess that's okay as long as I guess there's a minimum 
>  size of three in a group so but I for one would I was alarmed as 
>  to whether or not there would be even enough.
> Sharon Leu:  That might make it easier honestly but you know 
>  hopefully as we put out that open call for more implementers that 
>  you will also have more friends in your group.
> Kerri Lemoie:  This and just to follow up on that answer to yeah 
>  exactly and this is part of what we're going to work out where 
>  we're going to sort of bezel somewhat flexible in this planning 
>  process so we can see how that turns out yes hopefully there will 
>  be enough or hopefully we can make it so there are enough or come 
>  up with some other way of going about it but we will we'll get 
>  there.
> Kerri Lemoie:   It's a good question.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay does anyone have anything else.
> Kerri Lemoie:  If not I will give us all about 9 more minutes and 
>  we'll call This And of the call for now and then we will follow 
>  up soon on August 8th we have the AMA scheduled for this will be 
>  doing some work over the next few weeks to prepare for that feel 
>  free to reach out and ask any questions and help us get the word 
>  out so we can get as many people participating as possible so do 
>  you have anything else before we close.
> Sharon Leu:  Nope that's it just send us questions comments 
>  things that we may have missed and we really look forward to 
>  working with everyone again soon.
> <deb_everhart> thanks everyone, exciting!
> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay great thank you everyone have a good week.
> <sharon_leu> Thanks!
> <tim_dutta> Thank you!
> <manu_sporny> Woo hoo, excited to participate again!!! :)
> 
>