meeting record: 2005-04-07 SWBPD telecon

[completing this for Natasha, as she had to leave early]

The draft minutes of today's telecon are now
http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html

A text snapshot of revision 1.2 $Date: 2005/04/07 20:08:49 $ follows:
----

                                  SemWeb BPD

7 Apr 2005

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0018.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Ralph Swick, Aldo Gangemi, Darren Govoni, Dan Brickley, Libby
          Miller, Evan Wallace, Jeff Pan, Gary Ng, Natasha Noy, Guus
          Schreiber, Chris Welty, David Wood, Alan Rector, Tom Baker

   Regrets
          Jeremy Carroll, Benjamin Nguyen, Deb McGuinness, Phil Tetlow,
          Marco Nanni, Andreas Harth, Fabien Gandon, Brian Mcbride

   Chair
          Guus

   Scribe
          Natasha

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]WordNet TF
         2. [6]Proposed resolution httpRange-14
         3. [7]OMG: ODM review
         4. [8]DAWG: UNSAID and SOURCE issues
         5. [9]XML Schema Last Call
         6. [10]SWBPD FAQ proposal
         7. [11]OEP TF
         8. [12]XML Schema datatypes
         9. [13]Vocabulary Management
        10. [14]RDF in XHTML
        11. [15]RDFTM
        12. [16]ADTF
        13. [17]Tutorial Page
        14. [18]SE TF
        15. [19]PORT TF
     * [20]Summary of Action Items

     _________________________________________________________________



   [21]previous meeting 2005-03-24

     [21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0022.html

   RESOLVED to accept the [22]minutes of the March 24 telecon

     [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0022.html

   RESOLVED to accept the [23]minutes of Boston ftf 4-5 March

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2005/03/03-swbp-minutes

   RESOLVED next telecon 21 April 1700 UTC

   NOT 1800 UTC

   regrets for 21 April from Alan and DanBri

   ACTION: chairs & ralph to organise straw poll on f2f location

   continued, assigned to Guus

   ACTION: Guus to organise straw poll on f2f location

   Guus:There is also an offer from Stanford to hold f2f
   ... Will include in the strawpoll: Stanford, Vancouver, Galway

   ACTION: Ralph investigate what action may be taken when an interested
   participant has been unable to get a response from his AC Rep.

   Ralph: was in a process of finding his out, but ISI has a new AC rep,
   so there may be progress on that issue

   Action continued

WordNet TF

   ACTION: Guus to contact Aldo re whether he can attend next telecon
   [DONE]

   Current status of the TF:

   Aldo is writing a new version of the note on data model for WN

   Princeton plans to add new relationships to WN 2.1, perhaps also
   change in top levels

   <danbri> (I'd like to review it)

   ISLE lexical entries:
   [24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0069.ht
   ml

     [24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0069.html

   Aldo: are we in the position to add a liason action with ISLE

   <danbri> (re pronunciation extensions, we have work at
   [25]http://www.w3.org/Voice/ that we should connect with...)

     [25] http://www.w3.org/Voice/

   Guus: time line is very important and estimate of feasibility
   ... is this something you can resolve in 3-6 months?

   Aldo: certainly possible

   <danbri>
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/WNET/wnNounsyb_v7.owl 404s
   (link from
   [27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0066.ht
   ml)

     [26] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/WNET/wnNounsyb_v7.owl
     [27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0066.html)

   Guus: suggests to update the TF description to reflect the addition
   and we will discuss it at the next telecon

   ACTION: Aldo to propose an update the TF description

   DanBri: What is the relationship to the [28]Wordnet in RDFS and OWL
   document that Brian began to draft last year. Is it obsoleted by
   Aldo's work?

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/WNET/wordnet-sw-20040713.html

   <aldogan>
   [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0068.ht
   ml

     [29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0068.html

   <Ralph> [30]November f2f WNET discussion minutes

     [30] http://www.w3.org/2004/11/01-swbp#item12

   <danbri> all i can find is rdf/owl doc...
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/WNET/wordnet_datamodel.owl

     [31] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/WNET/wordnet_datamodel.owl

   Aldo: the datamodel is still based on the one Brian suggested
   but it has changed a bit
   Changes are described in the document
   Some of the documentation is in the OWL file and should be moved to
   the document directly

   Guus: It will be good to have another TF telecon discussion on teh
   datamodel

   <danbri> ah, found the big file:
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/WNET/wnNounsyn_v7.owl (via
   browsing directory)

     [32] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/WNET/wnNounsyn_v7.owl

Proposed resolution httpRange-14

   ACTION: DavidW to draft the http-range-14 message [33]DONE]

     [33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0202.html

   David: would be interested to know what happened on the TAG side

   <danbri> my sketch
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/VM/httpclass/1

     [34] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/VM/httpclass/1

   Ralph advised Dan Connolly that if TAG wanted to devise a forum to
   discuss the technical issues with us, we will be glad to do that

   David: How much energy/time are we willing to spend on this?

   <ChrisW> i agree with david

   DanBri: I [35]started a document on this topic (drafted as VM but
   without coordination w/ VM TF members) and to note that TAG minutes
   showed Tim as misunderstanding the WG resolution

     [35] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0012.html

   Ralph: we need to distinguish whether our arguments are
   deployment-oriented (something in our charter) vs architecture-driven
   arguments

   ACTION: Chairs to discuss the httpRange-14 issue at the coordination
   level

OMG: ODM review

   ACTION: Guus to review OWL metamodel

   continued, trying to finish this week

   ACTION: Deb to go over OWL metamodel and provide a summary

   continued

   ... later in the meeting ...

   Evan: semantics of business rules work in OMG has potential overlap
   with ODM
   ... there is some coordination contention in OMG about how much
   consistency is desired between that spec and ODM
   ... business rules work does not have a formal semantics

DAWG: UNSAID and SOURCE issues

   ACTION: Chris to provide input to DAWG based on deployment experience.

   completed; see [36]Chris's summary of his DAWG action

     [36] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0021.html

   ACTION: Deb sort SOURCE issue discussion timing out with DanC how you
   like; copy in davidw

   done

XML Schema Last Call

   ACTION: jjc to review XML schema LC draft

   continued; the draft is coming out shortly

   ACTION: Jeff to review XML schema LC draft

   continued; the draft is coming out shortly

SWBPD FAQ proposal

   SWBPD FAQ proposal: last time we agreed to do it

   Last week we decided that FAQ will be part of the Tutorial work

   <Ralph> Yes, Benjamin volunteers for FAQ in
   [37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0213.ht
   ml

     [37] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0213.html

OEP TF

   ACTION: Guus review of part-whole draft

   completed:
   [38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0017.ht
   ml

     [38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0017.html

   ACTION: Bill review of part-whole draft

   completed:
   [39]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0209.ht
   ml

     [39] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0209.html

   There was also a review by Natasha:
   [40]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0219.ht
   ml

     [40] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0219.html

   Natasha: the current draft doesn't talk about any patterns at the
   instance level

   Alan: there is a set of examples about geography that I wanted to deal
   with separately
   ... have to be careful with expressing qualifiers

   Natasha: I just wanted to point out to people that the relationships
   can be expressed just as a normal property

   Alan:I welcome additions from Natasha

   publication status of OEP Notes

   Chris cleaning up some pubrules violations in the specified values
   note

   Ralph: Classes as values is ready to go; sent for transition approval;
   might be published today

   Chris: no further progress on other OEP notes

XML Schema datatypes

   ACTION: jeff to coordinate editorial changes, formatting requirements,
   etc for XML schema dtypes [DONE]

   ACTION: Ralph help Jeff and Jeremy with XML Schema Datatype
   publication request

Vocabulary Management

   TomB: DanBri drafted a small note "[41]Some Things that Hashless HTTP
   URIs Can Name"
   ... we wanted to cover things like this in the VM Note
   ... intend to schedule some TF telecons in next 2-3 weeks

     [41] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/VM/httpclass/1

   DanBri: I'd like Task Force members to take a look at what I've
   started

   Guus: can this be merged with the main document?

   DanBri: the separate document may be a focal point for our interaction
   with TAG

   TomB: the material might be 2-3 paragraphs in the main document, so it
   is appropriate to have it separate for now

RDF in XHTML

   ACTION: DanBri help write an rdf schema for the additional xhtml2
   namespace elements [CONTINUES]

   DanBri: I had assumed that this action would be triggered by a new
   XHTML2 Working Draft

   Ralph: tf had a telecon earlier this week [42]minutes]
   ... both Mark Birbeck and Steven Pemberton attended
   ... update in the public record from them
   ... a new URI for an editor's draft (not on the w3.org site)
   ... not clear if we want to work from an editor's draft vs wait

     [42] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Apr/0007.html

   <danbri> ([43]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/28-editor-style.html btw
   defines Editor's Drafts; a new page)

     [43] http://www.w3.org/2005/03/28-editor-style.html

   ACTION: Gavin find out from his community and contacts if they have
   use cases [CONTINUES]

   ACTION: Tom Baker ask DC colleagues if many use rdf inside html [DONE]

   TomB: I got two responses that I summarized to the WG list
   ... can get more feedback if necessary

   ACTION: BenA set a time for the RDF-in-XHTML telecons [DONE]

   ACTION: the rdf in html tf to discuss whether GRIDDL needs to work on
   XHTML2 documents [WITHDRAWN]

   Guus: this seems a general goal of the TF, propose to withdraw

   DanBri: it is important to have a way to extract RDF from RDF/A
   ... this should be a part of the TF agenda

   <danbri> (reason for fussing on this is that the qnames-in-attribute
   values aspect complicates things, as it raises the Q of whether GRDDLs
   are XSLT 1.0 or 2.0, how to deploy w/ both environments, etc etc.)

   Guus: I asked Jeremy to give a talk on the status of this work at
   WWW2005
   ... I am worried that there may not be a public WD by then

   Ralph: we are putting a lot of pressure on the HTML WG to issue a new
   public WD

RDFTM

   Guus: constructive comments from Steve Newcomb

ADTF

   Libby: I've been looking at the [44]notes from Boston f2f and
   extracted the following:

     [44] http://www.w3.org/2005/03/03-swbp-minutes#item03

   <libby> [[

   <libby> *

   <libby> only applications and demos with their own [WWW]DOAP
   descriptions will be included

   <libby> *

   <libby> only freely downloadable apps and demos will be included
   unless they are products of a W3C member company

   <libby> *

   <libby> for the time being only RDF, RDFS and OWL applications will be
   included

   <libby> ]]

   Libby: have we made an official decision on these criteria?

   Ralph: I thought the meeting gave the authority to the TF to decide
   the criteria

   Libby: good, we'll send a note out then

Tutorial Page

   Guus: Benjamin and Jeff volunteered to work on this
   ... happy to have two people
   ... I'd like a simple procedure proposed for people to submit
   questions
   ... per Alan's suggestion in
   [45]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0097.ht
   ml

     [45] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0097.html

   <JeffP>
   [46]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0215.ht
   ml

     [46] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Mar/0215.html

   ACTION: Jeff to talk with Benjamin to propose a process for submission
   of FAQ questions

SE TF

   Jeff: telecon considered whether automated software engineering
   experts were needed in the TF
   ... consensus of TF was that we do need such expertise

   Guus: for an invited expert, we need a good description of a person
   with the required expertise and an explanation of why this expertise
   is not available among the W3C Membership
   ... main point is that the critical expertise is not present in the WG
   and justification for why the recommended person works for an
   organization that is not a W3C Member

   Jeff: re status of draft: we're working on Michael and David's
   comments
   ... example section is being restructured
   ... we would like more review of the existing examples in the draft
   ... Michael suggested that we need an example for section 3.3
   ... we would like the WG to supply an example for 3.3 else we will
   drop that section
   ... we hope to have a document for review by 23 April
   ... proposed idea section will make the concept of ontology-driven
   architecture more clear
   ... we have a workshop proposal on "Semantic Web Enabled Software
   Engineering" for ISWC accepted, chaired by Evan

   Guus: a report of that workshop would be a useful contribution to this
   group

PORT TF

   <danbri> Alistair's PORT TF summary:
   [47]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0015.ht
   ml (i) SKOS core ready to go (ii) Tom has some issues (which he'll
   summarise) (iii) minor comments re Publishing thes doc.

     [47] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0015.html

   DanBri: we have 3 documents that we hope to publish at the same time
   ... all have been reviewed
   ... SKOS Core Guide appears to be ready to go
   ... SKOS Core Specifications had some comments from TomB

   TomB: my comments were to be precise about the relationship between
   parts of the specification and the corresponding RDF schema

   <danbri> (re status w.r.t. notion of Editor's Draft, we can now cite
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/28-editor-style.html to explain what
   these are)

     [48] http://www.w3.org/2005/03/28-editor-style.html

   TomB: ... which version is authoritative?
   ... when changes are made, how to describe what the status of those
   changes will be
   ... some additional citations needed for people to find explanations
   of the different document types
   ... some more work needs to be done, but these are not issues that
   should hold up publication

   DanBri: 3rd doc is Quick Guide to Publishing a Thesaurus on the
   Semantic Web
   ... some debate about whether to use the word "publish" or "convert"
   ... I think the 3 documents are basically ready to go

   Guus: we need a proposal on the agenda to approve these for
   publication
   ... I am willing to handle the publication proposal by mail if the TF
   wishes

   TomB: I expect to sit down with Alistair next week and we can review
   the draft then

   Guus: we'll propose to consider publication of the set of 3 documents
   at the next telecon
   ... TF can ask for earlier consideration by mail if you wish

   DanBri: editors should note [49]Style for Group-internal Drafts

     [49] http://www.w3.org/2005/03/28-editor-style.html

   [50]Style for Group-internal Drafts (or, "How to avoid confusion with
   TR page documents") [Ian Jacobs 2005-04-07]

     [50] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2005AprJun/0012.html

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Aldo to propose an update the Wordnet TF description
   [recorded in
   [51]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: Chairs to discuss the httpRange-14 issue at the
   coordination level
   [recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: Guus to organise straw poll on f2f location
   [recorded in
   [53]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: Jeff to talk with Benjamin to propose a process for
   submission of FAQ questions
   [recorded in
   [54]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action13]
   [NEW] ACTION: Ralph help Jeff and Jeremy with XML Schema Datatype
   publication request
   [recorded in
   [55]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action07]
   ACTION: DanBri help write an rdf schema for the additional xhtml2
   namespace elements
   [recorded in
   [56]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action08]
   ACTION: Gavin find out from his community and contacts if they have
   use cases
   [recorded in
   [57]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action09]
   ACTION: Ralph investigate what action may be taken when an interested
   participant has been unable to get a response from his AC Rep
   [recorded in
   [58]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
   [DONE] ACTION: Tom Baker ask DC colleagues if many use rdf inside html
   [recorded in
   [59]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action10]
   [DONE] ACTION: BenA set a time for the RDF-in-XHTML telecons [recorded
   in [60]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action11]
   [DONE] ACTION: jeff to coordinate editorial changes, formatting
   requirements, etc for XML schema dtypes [recorded in
   [61]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action06]
   [WITHDRAWN] ACTION: chairs & ralph to organise straw poll on f2f
   location
   [recorded in
   [62]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action01]
   [WITHDRAWN] ACTION: the rdf in html tf to discuss whether GRIDDL needs
   to work on XHTML2 documents
   [recorded in
   [63]http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action12]

     [51] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action04
     [52] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action05
     [53] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action02
     [54] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action13
     [55] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action07
     [56] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action08
     [57] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action09
     [58] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action03
     [59] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action10
     [60] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action11
     [61] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action06
     [62] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action01
     [63] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action12

   [End of minutes]

     _________________________________________________________________


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