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Re: PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data Model]

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 20:14:10 +0000
To: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
CC: Stephan Zednik <zednis@rpi.edu>, Provenance Working Group WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <EMEW3|78bc3e9fbbb233f7a74679dea92195eanA5KEZ08L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|662F8363-4051-481B-8586-3E3506B9679B@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Hi Paul,

Yes, agreed it's worth a clarification.

Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton 
Southampton SO17 1BJ
United Kingdom

On 6 Nov 2011, at 19:05, "Paul Groth" <p.t.groth@vu.nl> wrote:

> Hi Luc
> 
> This is where the confusion is. Literals in RDF-speak are not URIs. Maybe a note in either prov-o or prov-dm would help clarify this.
> 
> Cheers
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 6, 2011, at 19:56, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Stephan,
>> Why can't you do it with the typed literals of prov-dm? I don't understand
>> The objction. Urls are one of the permitted types. You can use This to refer to any
>> Of your classes.
>> 
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science
>> University of Southampton
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>> United Kingdom
>> 
>> On 6 Nov 2011, at 18:45, "Stephan Zednik" <zednis@rpi.edu<mailto:zednis@rpi.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Comment below.
>> 
>> From: Luc Moreau [mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk]
>> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 10:02 AM
>> To: Daniel Garijo
>> Cc: Jim McCusker; Provenance Working Group WG
>> Subject: Re: PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data Model]
>> 
>> Hi Daniel,
>> That's seems fine modelling and prov-dm supports it.
>> Luc
>> 
>> On 06/11/11 16:14, Daniel Garijo wrote:
>> Hi Jim,
>> what was rejected is Roles being subclasses of Entities.
>> Roles can still be classes...
>> The statement that qualifiers must be typed literals seems to contradict the statement that roles can still be classes.
>> What’s even more important to me, it seems we are implying that all qualifiers should be typed literals.  Qualifiers are designated an extension point in the prov-DM, but we are now limiting these extensions to being just Literals.
>> I presume the idea of ‘extension’ is that there would be a prov:qualifer DataTypeProperty in prov-o and users would be encouraged to define domain-specific sub-properties?  If a user wishes to define a domain-specific objectProperty for use in Usage or Generation, etc., then this would not be an extension of a qualifier?
>> Is time information on Usage, Generation, etc. a defined specialization of qualifier?  Are we happy with limiting our time statements to Literals?
>> --Stephan
>> 
>> In your example, I would make "presidentRole" and instance
>> of class Role and then link it to the entity "Barack Obama".
>> 
>> Best,
>> Daniel
>> 2011/11/6 Jim McCusker <mccusj@rpi.edu<mailto:mccusj@rpi.edu>>
>> Make Roles resources like Entities. Classes of Roles (Creator,
>> Publisher, PrincipleInvestigator) are instantiated for each Entity. Of
>> course, this is rather similar to what's been rejected (?), but is
>> still the best choice, IMO. This would be, for instance, "Barack
>> Obama's role as president", as opposed to "the role of president",
>> which would be a class.
>> 
>> Role could also be an extension of skos:Concept and allow you to
>> express "the role of president" directly without custom instantiation.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk<mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>> Ok, so, what's alternative suggestion ?
>>> 
>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>> Electronics and Computer Science
>>> University of Southampton
>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>> United Kingdom
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6 Nov 2011, at 12:59, "Jim McCusker" <mccusj@rpi.edu<mailto:mccusj@rpi.edu>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> This is a misunderstanding of a URI literal versus URI resource. When
>>>> a URI resource is used, it can link to that resource when it has
>>>> assertions made about it. This is not possible or intended with URI
>>>> literals.
>>>> 
>>>> Jim
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk<mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Tim,
>>>>> 
>>>>> But doesn't this include URIs by means of typed literals?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>>>> Electronics and Computer Science
>>>>> University of Southampton
>>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>>>> United Kingdom
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 6 Nov 2011, at 01:20, "Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker" <sysbot+tracker@w3.org<mailto:sysbot%2Btracker@w3.org>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data Model]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/142
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Raised by: Timothy Lebo
>>>>>> On product: Data Model
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> prov-dm, 5.5.1 Qualifier:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "The value associated with a role attribute must be conformant with Literal."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Will this prevent PROV-O from using URIs to cite roles?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Restricting roles to literals will be severely limiting for PROV-O and semantic web applications, since literals cannot be described or served as linked data, and thus consumers will be unable to determine more information about what the role means.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Jim McCusker
>>>> Programmer Analyst
>>>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
>>>> Yale School of Medicine
>>>> james.mccusker@yale.edu<mailto:james.mccusker@yale.edu> | (203) 785-6330<tel:%28203%29%20785-6330>
>>>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
>>>> 
>>>> PhD Student
>>>> Tetherless World Constellation
>>>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
>>>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu<mailto:mccusj@cs.rpi.edu>
>>>> http://tw.rpi.edu
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Jim McCusker
>> Programmer Analyst
>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
>> Yale School of Medicine
>> james.mccusker@yale.edu<mailto:james.mccusker@yale.edu> | (203) 785-6330<tel:%28203%29%20785-6330>
>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
>> 
>> PhD Student
>> Tetherless World Constellation
>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu<mailto:mccusj@cs.rpi.edu>
>> http://tw.rpi.edu
>> 
>> 
Received on Sunday, 6 November 2011 20:15:12 UTC

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