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Re: PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data Model]

From: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 20:04:51 +0100
Message-ID: <1363DE01-B27A-4617-820A-833783000A1D@vu.nl>
CC: Stephan Zednik <zednis@rpi.edu>, Provenance Working Group WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
To: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Hi Luc

This is where the confusion is. Literals in RDF-speak are not URIs. Maybe a note in either prov-o or prov-dm would help clarify this.

Cheers
Paul



On Nov 6, 2011, at 19:56, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:

> Hi Stephan,
> Why can't you do it with the typed literals of prov-dm? I don't understand
> The objction. Urls are one of the permitted types. You can use This to refer to any
> Of your classes.
> 
> Professor Luc Moreau
> Electronics and Computer Science
> University of Southampton
> Southampton SO17 1BJ
> United Kingdom
> 
> On 6 Nov 2011, at 18:45, "Stephan Zednik" <zednis@rpi.edu<mailto:zednis@rpi.edu>> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Comment below.
> 
> From: Luc Moreau [mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk]
> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 10:02 AM
> To: Daniel Garijo
> Cc: Jim McCusker; Provenance Working Group WG
> Subject: Re: PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data Model]
> 
> Hi Daniel,
> That's seems fine modelling and prov-dm supports it.
> Luc
> 
> On 06/11/11 16:14, Daniel Garijo wrote:
> Hi Jim,
> what was rejected is Roles being subclasses of Entities.
> Roles can still be classes...
> The statement that qualifiers must be typed literals seems to contradict the statement that roles can still be classes.
> What’s even more important to me, it seems we are implying that all qualifiers should be typed literals.  Qualifiers are designated an extension point in the prov-DM, but we are now limiting these extensions to being just Literals.
> I presume the idea of ‘extension’ is that there would be a prov:qualifer DataTypeProperty in prov-o and users would be encouraged to define domain-specific sub-properties?  If a user wishes to define a domain-specific objectProperty for use in Usage or Generation, etc., then this would not be an extension of a qualifier?
> Is time information on Usage, Generation, etc. a defined specialization of qualifier?  Are we happy with limiting our time statements to Literals?
> --Stephan
> 
> In your example, I would make "presidentRole" and instance
> of class Role and then link it to the entity "Barack Obama".
> 
> Best,
> Daniel
> 2011/11/6 Jim McCusker <mccusj@rpi.edu<mailto:mccusj@rpi.edu>>
> Make Roles resources like Entities. Classes of Roles (Creator,
> Publisher, PrincipleInvestigator) are instantiated for each Entity. Of
> course, this is rather similar to what's been rejected (?), but is
> still the best choice, IMO. This would be, for instance, "Barack
> Obama's role as president", as opposed to "the role of president",
> which would be a class.
> 
> Role could also be an extension of skos:Concept and allow you to
> express "the role of president" directly without custom instantiation.
> 
> Jim
> 
> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk<mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>> Ok, so, what's alternative suggestion ?
>> 
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science
>> University of Southampton
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>> United Kingdom
>> 
>> 
>> On 6 Nov 2011, at 12:59, "Jim McCusker" <mccusj@rpi.edu<mailto:mccusj@rpi.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>>> This is a misunderstanding of a URI literal versus URI resource. When
>>> a URI resource is used, it can link to that resource when it has
>>> assertions made about it. This is not possible or intended with URI
>>> literals.
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk<mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>> Hi Tim,
>>>> 
>>>> But doesn't this include URIs by means of typed literals?
>>>> 
>>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>>> Electronics and Computer Science
>>>> University of Southampton
>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>>> United Kingdom
>>>> 
>>>> On 6 Nov 2011, at 01:20, "Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker" <sysbot+tracker@w3.org<mailto:sysbot%2Btracker@w3.org>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data Model]
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/142
>>>>> 
>>>>> Raised by: Timothy Lebo
>>>>> On product: Data Model
>>>>> 
>>>>> prov-dm, 5.5.1 Qualifier:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "The value associated with a role attribute must be conformant with Literal."
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Will this prevent PROV-O from using URIs to cite roles?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Restricting roles to literals will be severely limiting for PROV-O and semantic web applications, since literals cannot be described or served as linked data, and thus consumers will be unable to determine more information about what the role means.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jim McCusker
>>> Programmer Analyst
>>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
>>> Yale School of Medicine
>>> james.mccusker@yale.edu<mailto:james.mccusker@yale.edu> | (203) 785-6330<tel:%28203%29%20785-6330>
>>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
>>> 
>>> PhD Student
>>> Tetherless World Constellation
>>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
>>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu<mailto:mccusj@cs.rpi.edu>
>>> http://tw.rpi.edu
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Jim McCusker
> Programmer Analyst
> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
> Yale School of Medicine
> james.mccusker@yale.edu<mailto:james.mccusker@yale.edu> | (203) 785-6330<tel:%28203%29%20785-6330>
> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
> 
> PhD Student
> Tetherless World Constellation
> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu<mailto:mccusj@cs.rpi.edu>
> http://tw.rpi.edu
> 
> 
Received on Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:12:34 UTC

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