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Re: PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data Model]

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 20:18:05 +0000
To: Stephan Zednik <zednis@rpi.edu>
CC: Daniel Garijo <dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es>, Jim McCusker <mccusj@rpi.edu>, Provenance Working Group WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <EMEW3|e428e4eeef89d512261f32c491c2b48cnA5KI808L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|2FC923B7-C07B-4635-BFA5-798584831BCB@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Hi Stephan,

It was not my intent. Up to the ontology team to specify the mapping.
I see no reason why some qualifiers could not map to object property.

Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton 
Southampton SO17 1BJ
United Kingdom

On 6 Nov 2011, at 19:08, "Stephan Zednik" <zednis@rpi.edu> wrote:

> I interpret "Typed Literal" as enforcing a DataTypeProperty in the OWL
> encoding.  Is this not your intent?
> 
> --Stephan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luc Moreau [mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk] 
> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 11:56 AM
> To: Stephan Zednik
> Cc: Daniel Garijo; Jim McCusker; Provenance Working Group WG
> Subject: Re: PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data
> Model]
> 
> Hi Stephan,
> Why can't you do it with the typed literals of prov-dm? I don't understand
> The objction. Urls are one of the permitted types. You can use This to refer
> to any Of your classes.
> 
> Professor Luc Moreau
> Electronics and Computer Science
> University of Southampton
> Southampton SO17 1BJ
> United Kingdom
> 
> On 6 Nov 2011, at 18:45, "Stephan Zednik"
> <zednis@rpi.edu<mailto:zednis@rpi.edu>> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Comment below.
> 
> From: Luc Moreau [mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk]
> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 10:02 AM
> To: Daniel Garijo
> Cc: Jim McCusker; Provenance Working Group WG
> Subject: Re: PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data
> Model]
> 
> Hi Daniel,
> That's seems fine modelling and prov-dm supports it.
> Luc
> 
> On 06/11/11 16:14, Daniel Garijo wrote:
> Hi Jim,
> what was rejected is Roles being subclasses of Entities.
> Roles can still be classes...
> The statement that qualifiers must be typed literals seems to contradict the
> statement that roles can still be classes.
> What's even more important to me, it seems we are implying that all
> qualifiers should be typed literals.  Qualifiers are designated an extension
> point in the prov-DM, but we are now limiting these extensions to being just
> Literals.
> I presume the idea of 'extension' is that there would be a prov:qualifer
> DataTypeProperty in prov-o and users would be encouraged to define
> domain-specific sub-properties?  If a user wishes to define a
> domain-specific objectProperty for use in Usage or Generation, etc., then
> this would not be an extension of a qualifier?
> Is time information on Usage, Generation, etc. a defined specialization of
> qualifier?  Are we happy with limiting our time statements to Literals?
> --Stephan
> 
> In your example, I would make "presidentRole" and instance of class Role and
> then link it to the entity "Barack Obama".
> 
> Best,
> Daniel
> 2011/11/6 Jim McCusker <mccusj@rpi.edu<mailto:mccusj@rpi.edu>>
> Make Roles resources like Entities. Classes of Roles (Creator, Publisher,
> PrincipleInvestigator) are instantiated for each Entity. Of course, this is
> rather similar to what's been rejected (?), but is still the best choice,
> IMO. This would be, for instance, "Barack Obama's role as president", as
> opposed to "the role of president", which would be a class.
> 
> Role could also be an extension of skos:Concept and allow you to express
> "the role of president" directly without custom instantiation.
> 
> Jim
> 
> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Luc Moreau
> <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk<mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>> Ok, so, what's alternative suggestion ?
>> 
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science
>> University of Southampton
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>> United Kingdom
>> 
>> 
>> On 6 Nov 2011, at 12:59, "Jim McCusker"
> <mccusj@rpi.edu<mailto:mccusj@rpi.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>>> This is a misunderstanding of a URI literal versus URI resource. When 
>>> a URI resource is used, it can link to that resource when it has 
>>> assertions made about it. This is not possible or intended with URI 
>>> literals.
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Luc Moreau
> <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk<mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>> Hi Tim,
>>>> 
>>>> But doesn't this include URIs by means of typed literals?
>>>> 
>>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>>> Electronics and Computer Science
>>>> University of Southampton
>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>>> United Kingdom
>>>> 
>>>> On 6 Nov 2011, at 01:20, "Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker"
> <sysbot+tracker@w3.org<mailto:sysbot%2Btracker@w3.org>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data Model]
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/142
>>>>> 
>>>>> Raised by: Timothy Lebo
>>>>> On product: Data Model
>>>>> 
>>>>> prov-dm, 5.5.1 Qualifier:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "The value associated with a role attribute must be conformant with
> Literal."
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Will this prevent PROV-O from using URIs to cite roles?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Restricting roles to literals will be severely limiting for PROV-O and
> semantic web applications, since literals cannot be described or served as
> linked data, and thus consumers will be unable to determine more information
> about what the role means.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jim McCusker
>>> Programmer Analyst
>>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics Yale School of Medicine 
>>> james.mccusker@yale.edu<mailto:james.mccusker@yale.edu> | (203) 
>>> 785-6330<tel:%28203%29%20785-6330>
>>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
>>> 
>>> PhD Student
>>> Tetherless World Constellation
>>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
>>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu<mailto:mccusj@cs.rpi.edu>
>>> http://tw.rpi.edu
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Jim McCusker
> Programmer Analyst
> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
> Yale School of Medicine
> james.mccusker@yale.edu<mailto:james.mccusker@yale.edu> | (203)
> 785-6330<tel:%28203%29%20785-6330>
> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
> 
> PhD Student
> Tetherless World Constellation
> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu<mailto:mccusj@cs.rpi.edu>
> http://tw.rpi.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
Received on Sunday, 6 November 2011 20:22:24 UTC

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