Re: Next last call publication & question on todays meeting

Thanks, Felix,
inline

Dr. David Filip
=======================
LRC | CNGL | LT-Web | CSIS
University of Limerick, Ireland
telephone: +353-6120-2781
*cellphone: +353-86-0222-158*
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mailto: david.filip@ul.ie


On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org> wrote:

>  Am 16.05.13 11:56, schrieb Dr. David Filip:
>
> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Jirka Kosek <jirka@kosek.cz> wrote:
>
>> On 16.5.2013 10:59, Dr. David Filip wrote:
>>
>> > It should aslo say
>> > that the extensions MUST not provide features provided by the ITS core
>> > elements attributes. I understand that we can hardly build test cases
>> for
>> > this MUST, but it is important to stress.
>>
>>  There is no reason for specifying this. ITS is used in host languages
>> and they are already providing their own means for some data categories
>> (usually lang, dir, translate).
>>
> Of course they do, so you need global rules for an ITS processor to
> recognize them as such.
> Enforcing is not just about testing. If someone introduces a global rule
> using an extended element, it is against the spirit of the standard to let
> this overlap with any ITS feature. If you do not use normative language to
> say so in the spec, you have later on no base for saying that such use of
> extensibility is not conformant...
>
>>
>> Anyway you can enforce such rule in practice so it doesn't make sense to
>> introduce it.
>>
>> >> ITS is kind enough to allow other namespaces, the ITS processors can
>> >> simply ignore them, and that’s the end of the story.
>> >>
>> > In order to make the schema changes, the spec must unequivocally say
>> where
>> > those extended elements and attributes are allowed. It is anarchy and
>> not a
>> > standard otherwise.
>>
>>  This is now described in RELAX NG schema -- its20.rnc. Basically foreign
>> elements can be used only inside its:rules. Foreign attributes can be
>> used on any element defined in ITS.
>>
> I agree with the solution materially, all I say is that this must also
> occur in prose descriptions of the elements.
>
>
> Thank you for stating your agreement, David. To make sure I understand and
> for the record: you agree with the schema change Jirka made, see also
>
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-commits/2013May/0044.html
> [foreign
>
> elements can be used only inside its:rules. Foreign attributes can be
> used on any element defined in ITS.]
>
> ?
>
Again, I do agree with the change materially and the schema change is OK
with me

>
> Wrt to the spec change: having the text in prose description for all
> elements doesn't sound feasible.
>
If we do not list it for every element than appendix D and schema will be
in conflict with the rest of the prose specification.
*The element descriptions are ENUMERATIVE in the main body of the spec.
Therefore the spec is currently in conflict with the schema!*
I put the example and into reply to Yves..


> How about adding what you agreed to
> "Foreign elements can be used only inside its:rules. Foreign attributes
> can be
>
> used on any element defined in ITS."
>
> To
>
> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#its-schemas
>
> ?
>
> As I said in response to Yves, it is good to have the blanket statement in
appendix D.
Can zou confirm that Appendix D is nornmative?
Shouldn't it be introduced with the italics text.
*This section is normative*
Just to be sure..


> Best,
>
> Felix
>
>
>
>
>>                         Jirka
>>
>>
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>
>