W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-lod@w3.org > June 2013

Re: The need for RDF in Linked Data

From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 23:58:07 +0200
Message-ID: <CAKaEYhK6MVz=7Lrhk1bNCePo1hfPdrps4BQGD=Sr-cdf9QEp3w@mail.gmail.com>
To: David Wood <david@3roundstones.com>
Cc: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>, Linked Data community <public-lod@w3.org>
On 17 June 2013 23:26, David Wood <david@3roundstones.com> wrote:

> Nicely done, Kingsley!  That is an excellent exploration of the boundaries.
>
> Yes, it is RDF (of course), but crappy RDF since the predicates are hardly
> likely to be reused by others or even mapped via owl:sameAs.
>
> Yes, it is Linked Data, but crappy Linked Data because it doesn't link out
> to anything.  The bogus Content-Type is something we have (almost) all
> learned to live with.
>
> Crappy != broken, but it is still crappy ;-)
>

+1


>
> Regards,
> Dave
> --
> http://about.me/david_wood
>
>
>
> On Jun 17, 2013, at 14:17, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>
>  On 6/17/13 1:35 PM, Luca Matteis wrote:
>
> It's number 3 because it's RDF (Turtle) and it's using URIs to describe
> things. And links to other data.
>
> Let's put aside the Turtle assumption debate since it (like Media Type)
> doesn't have any concrete bearing on this exercise.
>
> How about the document denoted by this URI/URL:
> <http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test2.ttl><http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test2.ttl>
>
> Is that an RDF document? If not, is it a Linked Data document? Or is it
> neither?
>
>
> Kingsley
>
>
>  Can you make your point more clearly rather than answering my question
> with other questions?
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>wrote:
>
>>  On 6/17/13 1:09 PM, Luca Matteis wrote:
>>
>> What makes it RDF is that you can take the contents of this URL and stick
>> it in any popular RDF parser and it will parse it for you.
>>
>>  It's still bad quality Linked Data because it's missing mime-types.
>> Anyway back to my initial question "How do you produce Linked Data
>> without RDF?"
>>
>>
>>  To cleanup this experiment, here's a URI/URL that denotes a version of
>> the file (note: there where some errors in the initial document e.g.  "."
>> where I meant to have ";") on my server:
>>
>>
>> <http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test.ttl><http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test.ttl>.
>>
>> You can also just copy and past the content to your document to yours.
>>
>> Back to the question and exercise, what's the defining characteristic
>> that makes either of our documents  (denoted by their respective URI/URLs)
>> RDF documents, specifically? Here are some document type options to select
>> from:
>>
>> 1. Structured Data
>> 2. Structured Data adhering to Linked Data principles
>> 3. RDF based Structured Data adhering to Linked Data principles.
>>
>>
>> Note, I am not expecting Media Types to play any role in this experiment.
>>
>> Kingsley
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:59 PM, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  On 6/17/13 12:51 PM, Luca Matteis wrote:
>>>
>>> Done: http://codepad.org/7REcSynR/raw.txt
>>>
>>>  That's still RDF so I don't get your point.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Really? How?
>>>
>>> curl -I http://codepad.org/7REcSynR/raw.txt
>>>
>>> HTTP/1.1 200 OK
>>> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 16:57:10 GMT
>>> Server: Apache
>>> Pragma: no-cache
>>> Cache-Control: no-cache
>>> Content-Disposition: attachment
>>> Content-Length: 427
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>>
>>>
>>> What makes it RDF?
>>>
>>> Related:
>>>
>>> 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity–attribute–value_model -- EAV
>>> 2. http://bit.ly/YTdz3N - Peter Chen's circa. 1976 dissertation that
>>> covers unified views of data (note: a simple example of these concepts that
>>> even predate the World Wide Web).
>>>
>>>  Kingsley
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>   On 6/17/13 11:02 AM, Luca Matteis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Kingsley Idehen <
>>>> kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Linked Data is also something you can produce, without any knowledge
>>>>> of RDF.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you mean "without any knowledge of RDF"? How do you produce
>>>> Linked Data without RDF? Please give us an example before making statements
>>>> on behalf of the community.
>>>>
>>>>  If you recall (earlier today) I presented you with a simple exercise
>>>> which would answer the question you've posed above, demonstrably.
>>>>
>>>> Here's that I posted:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Webby Structured Data:
>>>>
>>>> Simply copy and paste the following to a Web accessible location (URL)
>>>> and then share the URL via a response to this mail. If you can't then
>>>> simply let me know and I'll do that for you.
>>>>
>>>> ## Structured Data Representation using Turtle Notation ##
>>>>
>>>> <>
>>>> a <#Document> .
>>>> <#mentions> "Linked Data" , "Linked Data", "Semantic Web", "Inference
>>>> Reasoning", "Web".
>>>> <#comment> "A mailing list post about Linked Data and RDF".
>>>> <#seeAlso> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Linked_data><http://dbpedia.org/resource/Linked_data>,
>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/RDF> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/RDF>,
>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Semantic_Web><http://dbpedia.org/resource/Semantic_Web>,
>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/World_Wide_Web><http://dbpedia.org/resource/World_Wide_Web>
>>>>
>>>> ## End ##
>>>>
>>>>  What is the above to you?
>>>>
>>>> 1. Webby Structured Data -- constructable using basic knowledge of
>>>> Entity Relationship Models e.g. EAV (Entity-Attribute-Value based
>>>> structured data representation)
>>>> 2. RDF based Structured Data -- i.e., structured data endowed with
>>>> machine- and human-comprehensible entity relationship semantics as defined
>>>> by RDF (a framework).
>>>>
>>>> Related:
>>>>
>>>> 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity–attribute–value_model<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity%96attribute%96value_model>-- EAV
>>>> 2. http://bit.ly/YTdz3N - Peter Chen's circa. 1976 dissertation that
>>>> covers unified views of data (note: a simple example of these concepts that
>>>> even predate the World Wide Web).
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Kingsley Idehen	
>>>> Founder & CEO
>>>> OpenLink Software
>>>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
>>>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
>>>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Kingsley Idehen	
>>> Founder & CEO
>>> OpenLink Software
>>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
>>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
>>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen	
>> Founder & CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen	
> Founder & CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Monday, 17 June 2013 21:58:36 UTC

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