RE: Two Final Threads - Diphthongs / Final glyph checks

Hi Badral and Greg,


It is not acceptable for using any kind of FVS (1 or 2, or 3) for SAYIQAN (meaning “recently”). 

The medial form    is definitely the first medial form YI. It is not the second or third.


Please check the following related document, 

All of them called the  is the first medial form of YA  and  is the second medial form of YA. 

1.     Professor Quejingzhabu’s book “The Mongolian Encoding”

2.     GB 26226-2010 standard of China which is we are refereeing mainly.

3.     TR170 document which is you are refereeing mainly.

4.     Previous USVL document.


The naming of medial YA in these document is matching Mongolian tradition and exactly correct.


But these book all call  as first medial form of YA, but there are extra encoding with FVS1.

It is the main problem of this issue. We are proposing to correct this mistake to match the real word,

Or discarding the contradictory parts in these documents.


Please do not forget the medial form is used before other vowel, A, E, O, U, OE, UE, EE in large amount of words. 


The  is only one special form before I in the medial position in the word. It should be the second variant of the YA.







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From: Badral S. [] 
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2015 3:51 AM
Subject: Re: Two Final Threads - Diphthongs / Final glyph checks


Hi Greg,
I will try to explain this problem. There exist an overlap between some regular words and some words with diphthong, if we use yi for diphthongs. The list created by Siqin is exactly these regular words.
Saiqan is just one example word, which contains a diphthong. If we use yi for diphthong, it seems sayiqan and has to be displayed with two straight shin (shilbe) like. Here the first shin is YA consonant which is second medial form of YA (1836). But we should not use FVSs for diphthongs because the frequency is enormous, thus it's managed by OT rules. The second shin is first medial form of I (1822).
Besides, there exist a regular word sayiqan, which means "recently". In this case YI must be displayed with one turned up shin and one straight shin like . Here first shin is YA consonant which is first medial form of YA (1836). The second one is first medial form of I (1822).
Now, the problem is how should we encode this type of words. We have already the OT rules which displays YI as two straight shin for encoding SAYIQAN, which means "nice". Now we have to invalidate our rule, to display sayiqan with meaning "recently". We have possibility to encode such regular words with SAY(FVS2 or FVS3)IQAN. I already suggested that we can use FVS2 generally for every overriding. It's exactly same as the overriding at NAI(FVS2)MA.


On 06.11.2015 10:18, siqin wrote:

Hi Greg,

To make it very clear, you are saying that 


(SAIQAN) is           <U+1830><U+1820><U+1822><U+182C><U+1820><U+1828>


 (SAYIQAN) is       <U+1830><U+1820><U+1836><U+1822><U+182C><U+1820><U+1828>?


AND there should be no FVS involved?

Yes, and if want to use ayi,eyi,oyi,uyi,oeyi,ueyi,

(SAY'IQAN) is           <U+1830><U+1820><U+1836><U+180B><U+1822><U+182C><U+1820><U+1828>


The words with Y which not silbe is here



On 2015/11/06 1:06, Greg Eck wrote:

Hi Jirimutu,


To make it very clear, you are saying that 


(SAIQAN) is           <U+1830><U+1820><U+1822><U+182C><U+1820><U+1828>


 (SAYIQAN) is       <U+1830><U+1820><U+1836><U+1822><U+182C><U+1820><U+1828>?


AND there should be no FVS involved?


Does someone have time to pull up Siqin’s list in text form again? It should be both in text and .xps format. I believe Baiti has resolved most of the diphthongs without use of the FVS, but if we had some mutually accessible test data, we could all check our font against the same data.






Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:21 PM
Subject: RE: Two Final Threads - Diphthongs / Final glyph checks


I have attached the XPS format file of Reply_to_Badral.pdf.

Hope this works.


>Having troubles with the pdf because it drops the NNBSP upon cut/paste.

>That is one ACTION POINT that we need to address shortly.

Yes. I would like to know who is from Adobe Systems ?

I would like to communicate with them regarding the adobe products like InDesign support Mongolian as well.





Badral Sanlig, Software architect <>  | <> 
Bolorsoft LLC, Selbe Khotkhon 40/4 D2, District 11, Ulaanbaatar

Received on Friday, 20 November 2015 03:53:55 UTC