RE: {minutes} HTML WG Telecon 2010-09-09 - LC timeline, distributed extensibility, media accessibility

The minutes are available here:

[Description: W3C]<>

HTML Weekly Teleconference
09 Sep 2010


See also: IRC log<>

Judy, dsinger, Sam, Matt_May, paulc, Plh, dpenkler, Mike, Janina, Eric_Carlson, [Microsoft], adrianba, Julian, Laura_Carlson, eliot, Cynthia_Shelly, mjs
Maciej Stachowiak
Adrian Bateman

  *   Topics<>
     *   ACTION items due by Thursday, Sep 9<>
     *   New Issues This Week<>
     *   Items Closed Last Week<>
     *   Items Closing This week<>
     *   New Calls for Consensus / Proposals this Week<>
     *   Issue updates<>
     *   Last Call Timeline<>
     *   ISSUE-9 media accessibility requirements overview, Janina<>
     *   Other business<>
     *   Scribe for next meeting<>
     *   Adjournment<>
  *   Summary of Action Items<>


<trackbot> Date: 09 September 2010

<scribe> ScribeNick: adrianba

<scribe> Scribe: Adrian Bateman

<pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-09-09 - LC timeline, distributed extensibility, media accessibility from Maciej Stachowiak on 2010-09-08 ( from July to September 2010) (at

<MikeSmith> adrian, you on?


<janina> We don't seem to have any of the chairs?

<janina> O, good!

<paulc> So is Paul

<paulc> Paul is in Japan doing his best imitation of Mike S!

<MikeSmith> adrianba, can you scribe?

yep, ready to go

<MikeSmith> agenda:

<pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-09-09 - LC timeline, distributed extensibility, media accessibility from Maciej Stachowiak on 2010-09-08 ( from July to September 2010) (at

<scribe> Chair: Sam Ruby

<scribe> Chair: Mike Smith
ACTION items due by Thursday, Sep 9


<pimpbot> Title: Input for Agenda Planning for the HTML Weekly - HTML Weekly Tracker (at

<plh> ACTION-29?

<trackbot> ACTION-29 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring -- due 2010-09-09 -- OPEN


<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-29 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at

plh: first action is mine, doc license
... PSIG proposed a draft which was rejected by FSF as not compatible with GPL
... PSIG went to Director to ask for next steps, a survey was prepared but was withdrawn because of some gaps in the PSIG analysis
... we're fixing the PSIG document and how it maps to HTML WG use cases
... after that we'll resubmit the survey
... don't expect any resolution before TPAC on this
... suggest check back in one month to make sure progress is being made

<MikeSmith> action-29: plan is to put forward another survey to the W3C membership

<trackbot> ACTION-29 Follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring notes added

MikeSmith: should we keep the action?

<MikeSmith> action-29 due 2010-10-09

<trackbot> ACTION-29 Follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring due date now 2010-10-09

plh: keep it open - we'll check back in a month
New Issues This Week


<trackbot> ISSUE-118 -- Specification breaks semantics of existing link relations "index" and "first" -- raised


<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-118 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at

MikeSmith: we don't have any other information on this, do we need to discuss anything on this today?

rubys: no, it's new - if people want to look at it then it is there

MikeSmith: this is related to an action outside the group related to a registration I submitted on behalf of the group
... it isn't purely internal - nothing we can do this week - people should follow-up if they have anything to add
Items Closed Last Week


<trackbot> ISSUE-110 -- Change Control for text/html-sandboxed media type -- open


<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-110 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at

MikeSmith: we have one change proposal here to change the owner to W3C
... this is closed and it seems like we have resolution on this
Items Closing This week

MikeSmith: None
New Calls for Consensus / Proposals this Week


<trackbot> ISSUE-116 -- provide reference and info about HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives in html5 spec -- open


<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-116 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at

MikeSmith: this is for text alternatives
... call for consensus closes on Sep 17
... we have until then to get in comments and have discussion about it
Issue updates


<trackbot> ISSUE-85 -- ARIA roles added to the a element should be conforming in HTML5 -- open


<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-85 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at

<pimpbot> 1110066:, P1, NEW, 13replace section 3.2.6 with the alternative spec text provided (ARIA)

MikeSmith: i think we have some more updates based on the mail Maciej sent


<pimpbot> Title: ARIA mapping status from Maciej Stachowiak on 2010-09-09 ( from September 2010) (at

<MikeSmith> bug 10066

<pimpbot> 11, P1, NEW, 13replace section 3.2.6 with the alternative spec text provided (ARIA)

MikeSmith: that is Maciej's summary of the issues related to bug 10066

rubys: this points out who Maciej thinks who owns which bugs
... i agree with the assessment - if anyone has comments they should speak up

MikeSmith: next is issue 41


<trackbot> ISSUE-41 -- Decentralized extensibility -- open


<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-41 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at

MikeSmith: few items listed in the agenda

rubys: we have three proposals left from the original 5 or so
... of those one is fully formed, the other two need updating
... we have volunteers for one but not the other - if someone would like to do that they should speak up
... if they are not updated then they may fall away (i expect one to be updated)
Last Call Timeline

MikeSmith: hope everyone has seen the significant announcement from Maciej on behalf of the chairs


<pimpbot> Title: Timeline to Last Call from Maciej Stachowiak on 2010-09-08 ( from September 2010) (at

MikeSmith: this is a breakdown of the time line for getting to last call with milestones and consequences for missing the milestones
... everyone in the group should read and provide feedback
... first deadline is oct 1 for bugs to be filed
... to be considered before last call, bugs after this will be treated as last call comments
... bottom line is if you have bugs you want to file you should get them in now

adrianba: how will we make sure that work is done through the milestones?

<MikeSmith> adrianba: how are the chairs going to make sure that work happens during the time between the milestones instead of everybody waiting until just befor the milestone deadlines?

<paulc> Adrian: How do we spread out the work over each work period so it does not all occur near the end?

rubys: i don't have a specific answer right now - we're working with ian on how bugs will be processed - we also need to focus on other issues too

<paulc> We need feedback from spec Editors on their readiness to accept this timeline:


<pimpbot> Title: RE: Timeline to Last Call from Eliot Graff on 2010-09-09 ( from September 2010) (at

MikeSmith: comments and questions to the milestones and time line are welcome on public-html

paulc: i'm not sure how many editors of specs we have on
... we also asked other editors if this was an acceptable time line
... there is a message from Eliot but we need to follow-up with other editors to see how many specs will follow this plan

<mjs> hi all

MikeSmith: i think part of the point is that the other editors have the opportunity to speak up and say that they want their specs to progress at the same rate
ISSUE-9 media accessibility requirements overview, Janina


<trackbot> ISSUE-9 -- how accessibility works for <video> is unclear -- open


<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-9 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at


MikeSmith: meant to do this last week but had some technical issues

<pimpbot> Title: Media Accessibility User Requirements - HTML accessibility task force Wiki (at

Janina: this is the user reqs doc that has come out of the media subteam in the a11y TF
... this is not an inventory of what is or isn't supported
... it is what kind of resources and control are needed by people with a11y reqs
... it is a user requirements not a user agent requirements doc

<MikeSmith> mjs, can you take over on chairing for the remainder of the call?

<mjs> MikeSmith, yes

Janina: we need to engineer solutions but as was pointed out in a recent conversation we should not assume that the full WG has agreed on thes reqs

<MikeSmith> chair: Maciej

Janina: so before we get down to engineering solutions it seems prudent to ask the group if we agree that the reqs are accurate
... if something is missing we need to add it
... equally if something is here that shouldn't be now is the time to discuss that

<rubys> did we lose janina again?

<paulc> Did we lose Janina?

Janina: this way when we get to technologies to build with we've agreed on what we need to support
... section 1 is a crash course on what the different issues are for people and media
... all the tech requirements are section 2 and 3
... in section 2, describe video
... this has been around since the 80s, used in analog and digital broadcast
... uses the silences to add description by voice of what is happening
... in section 2.2 you also have the ability to do textual description rather than the expensive addition of a recorded voice
... 2.3 if you can do text and audio you may not need to be limited to the timeframe of original video
... in education situations you may need more time than is available in pauses or silences
... which can be supported in a computer environment in a way that couldn't be done in traditional broadcast
... concept of extended time where you pause and restart to allow a longer description
... 2.4 concept implemented primarily in the UK - clear audio - for people losing their hearing
... probably only used in a professional situation - create an additional audio track with most of the incidental sounds removed
... only main sounds like speech remain - people can use their remaining hearing more effectively
... removing less essential sounds improves recognition
... being done with digital broadcasting at least in the uk

2.5 comes from electronic book publishing - make content available for people who can't read a book

janina: the idea is that if you can map the DOM structure to next / previous you make it more accessible
... getting the balance between all and only high-level is hard
... in real time you could adjust the level of detail
... moving forward to captioning - it is the word most often thought of as making video accessible
... also can be used in a noisy environment so most familiar
... very close to subtitles but not the same
... important events may also be mentioned in captioning
... traditionally from broadcast but because this is computer mediated we can support additional capabilities
... 2.8 sign language translation - oldest that predates something electronic
... often prefer whatever is happening signed for them
... but for people who became deaf later in life learning a new language is harder
... also different locales have different signing
... so we've had text tracks, additional audio tracks, etc.
... these need to be in sync and are not always the same length
... 2.9 sometimes only having a transcript is useful
... section 3 - we need controls that are device independent so that what ever device is connected can stop/start/forward/rewind/etc
... real time ability to control the dom depth of next/previous
... 3.3 fortunately this is in the spec already - need to be able to speed up or slow down
... great that this is already in spec - is required
... 3.4 most of this is not new - older than the web itself
... generally going to be in authoring guidance
... discovery and activation important - need to be able to choose what is available
... 3.6 what kinds of properties need to be available
... 3.7 need to be able to control placement on screen and some of the styling needs to be under user control
... 3.8 the need to be able to control which output device audio is pointed at - various reasons why you want the described video audio to go to a different device than the primary resource
... that's the walkthough - any questions?

mjs: thanks for covering all that, any questions or comments?
... i hope everyone takes a closer look at the document and reviews and follows up on the mailing list
... would be good to have discussion of the document

judy: janina, we had talked about mentioning some of the next steps in the media sub-team - could you outline those so people know what to expect?
... also wanted to mention that if people are interested they are welcome to join

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10481] Default role of <IMG> should be "img" <11> 4** [Bug 9817] Details element Focus problem <11> 4** [Bug 10066] replace section 3.2.6 with the alternative spec text provided (ARIA) <11>

janina: i can provide a pointer here


<pimpbot> Title: Media Accessibility Checklist - HTML accessibility task force Wiki (at

janina: this is what we are currently focusing on - if you look at the table we are mapping the user requirements into the types of technology to support them
... from that we expect to prioritise on which technologies still need attention
... that's what the MUST, SHOULD, MAY is for - they start as MUST but probably don't all stay that way
... next we look at different technologies (e.g. TTML or WebSRT) to see what capabilities there are and what might be missing
... can we use existing things - they may be almost everything there already

mjs: thanks, any other questions?
Other business

mjs: Julian sent an item ahead of time


<pimpbot> 1110399:, P2, RESOLVED INVALID, 13base64 def in algorithm for put to data URI

julian: this issue i raised an small editorial issue - it seems the editor agrees with the issue but chose not to fix because he doesn't agree with the way i raised the issue
... i'm not sure how to proceed
... perhaps someone else can pick this up?

mjs: i haven't had chance to study this - it looks like two different mutually exclusive changes
... the editor took this as two issues and rejected the first
... i would be happy to take this on and see what i can do to move this forward
... i will contact you offline if i have any questions
... any other business or comments on this item?
Scribe for next meeting

mjs: volunteers?
... next week sam is chairing
... i will volunteer to scribe

mjs: see you all next week

<MikeSmith> Mike, drop Mike

Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]

From: [] On Behalf Of Maciej Stachowiak
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 12:04 PM
To: public-html-wg-announce
Subject: {agenda} HTML WG Telecon 2010-09-09 - LC timeline, distributed extensibility, media accessibility

The HTML Working Group will have its usual weekly teleconference on
2010-09-09 for up to 60 minutes from 16:00Z to 17:00Z.

Tokyo 01:00+1, Amsterdam/Oslo 18:00, London/Dublin 17:00, New
Jersey/York 12 noon, Kansas City 11:00, Seattle/San Francisco 09:00.

Chair of the meeting: Maciej Stachowiak
Scribe: Adrian Bateman

(See the end of this email for dial-in and IRC info.)

== Agenda ==

1. ACTION items due by Thursday, Sep 9

a) ACTION-29 Follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring [Philippe]

2. New Issues This Week:

ISSUE-118 broken-link-types - Specification breaks semantics of existing link relations "index" and "first"

3. Items Closed Last Week

a) ISSUE-110 sandbox-type-owner - Call for Counter-Proposals closed Sep 4

4. Items Closing This week


5. New Calls for Consensus / Proposals this Week

ISSUE-116 text-alternatives - Call for Consensus closes Sep 17

6. Issue updates

a) ISSUE-85 and Bug 10066

b) ISSUE-41
Two requests for revisions, one accepted proposal:

7. Last Call Timeline

8. ISSUE-9 media accessibility requirements overview, Janina
Announcement of overview:

9. Other business

10. Scribe for next meeting

11. Adjournment

== Dial-in and IRC Details ==

Zakim teleconference bridge
+1.617.761.6200, +, +44.203.318.0479
code: HTML (4865)

Supplementary IRC chat (logged)
#html-wg on<> port 6665 or port 80

Received on Thursday, 9 September 2010 17:03:46 UTC