- From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
- Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 20:10:52 -0400
- To: Craig Francis <craig@synergycms.com>, public-html <public-html@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <20070804235354.M65977@hicom.net>
aloha, craig! i too share your concern for the limitations of LABEL as it is currently implemented -- i'm attaching an html example slash test document i created for the systems team at w3c, with whom i've worked off and on on accessibility and usability issues for the past 7 or 8 years... it illustrates the FIELDSET, LEGEND and LABEL model, which CANNOT work without the explicit binding of LABEL (and HTML 4.01 does allow multiple labels to point at a common target) to a form control, especially when the form is embedded in a table, where implicit associations are impossible... FIELDSET provides a grouping mechanism, LEGEND provides context for the grouping of form fields, and LABEL provides context for individual form controls... other re-formatted forms with detailed commentary on the changes and need for change, can be found at: 1. <http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/temp/BoA/atm_locator_gjr.html> constructed for the Bank of America, in an attempt to provide them with crucial feedback about their web site and the tag soup they utilized to create it -- unfortunately, after getting a fair deal of what i advised implemented, BoA changed the vendor who provides their web presence and services, and most of the work i had been successful in getting them to incorporate, no longer comprises part of the BoA site's code. the initial detailed report i compiled for BoA is archived at: <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2007Aug/0004.html> 2. <http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/temp/google/gmail/accessible_feedback_form_ options.html> includes link to changelog and illustrates options, including FIELDSET inside a table 3. <http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/temp/google/scholar/> includes links to comments excised from the reformat's document source; and an accessible alternate search form; note that this material dates from the spring of 2006, and is not intended as a criticism of google's current approach to forms, which have benefitted immeasureably since raman began working at google 4. and a 2001 message outlining specific changes necessary for the then-extant request for WAI QuickTip cards: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/wai/qtform_feedback1.txt i hope that these illustrations are of assistance to you, gregory. -------------------------------------------------------------- CRITIC, n. A person who boasts himself hard to please because nobody tries to please him. -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary -------------------------------------------------------------- Gregory J. Rosmaita: oedipus@hicom.net Oedipus' Online Complex: http://my.opera.com/oedipus/ Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html -------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Craig Francis <craig@synergycms.com> To: public-html <public-html@w3.org> Sent: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 18:50:54 +0100 Subject: The <label> > I might be a little early on the discussion here, as it seems > the spec is missing this part, in regards to the <label> tag: > > <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/html5/spec/Overview.html? > rev=1.171&content-type=text/html;%20charset=iso-8859-1#the-label> > > Where it states "See WF2 for now" (Web Forms 2.0). > > Anyway, I have recently been working on a website where the > fields > (radio) were presented in a tabular layout... its one of those > "rate out of 5" types where the thing to be rated is set per > row, and the columns are the radio fields 1 to 5. > > Technically its possible to have used a drop down menu (select), > however we had a design to match. > > While developing it, I was hoping to have the headers > effectively be the labels, instead of having to write out an > off-screened label for each field. > > I know its technically possible (although current screen readers > don't really support it), to give an input field multiple > labels... which was one part to the problem... however in HTML4 > "the for attribute associates a label with another control > explicitly"... so I could not assign the label to multiple > input fields. > > <http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#h-17.9.1> > > What I am proposing is that the @for attribute can take multiple, > space separated, id's to list the related fields... in the > same was that the @class attribute can take multiple CSS classes. > > --- > > Also, on perhaps an un-related note... I am not too keen on the > use of: > > <label>Name <input... /></label> > > I know this is implicit linking of the field to the label, > without the need for the @for attribute... but I was under the > impression that xml cascades the meaning down to child nodes, > so does this imply that the <input>, a field, is also a label? > > For me it just seems like a hack to increase the hit area in > visual browsers. > > Craig ------- End of Original Message -------
Attachments
- text/html attachment: form-and-label-tests.html
Received on Sunday, 5 August 2007 00:11:34 UTC