[MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2022-07-18

Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2022-07-18-vc-education/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2022-07-18-vc-education/audio.ogg

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VC for Education Task Force Transcript for NaN-NaN-NaN

Agenda:
  https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=%5BAGENDA&period_month=Invalid Date&period_year=NaN&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-credentials&resultsperpage=20&sortby=date
Topics:
  1. IP Note
  2. Call Notes
  3. Introductions & Reintroductions
  4. Announcements
  5. Main Topic: JFF VC-EDU Plugfest #2
Organizer:
  Kerri Lemoie
Scribe:
  Our Robot Overlords
Present:
  Kerri Lemoie, Sharon Leu, Jeff O - HumanOS, David Chadwick, Manu 
  Sporny, Simone Ravaoli, Razvan Braghesiu (Lightpass), Tim Bouma, 
  xander @ ASU, Marty Reed, Kimberly Linson, Stuart Freeman, TimG, 
  John Kuo, Deb Everhart, Zach -RANDA, Jonathan Bethune, Taylor 
  Kendall, Brandon Muramatsu, Joe Kaplan, Kaliya, Dmitri Zagidulin, 
  Tim Dutta, Andy Griebel, Mark (RANDA), Phil Barker, Jon St. John, 
  Akshar Patel, Colin, Learning Economy, Jenn G, Geun-Hyung, Kayode 
  Ezike, JoAdel, Nate Otto, Rebecca Busacca, Territorium, Phil L 
  (P1), Keith W (RANDA), Geun-Hyung Kim, Matthias Gottlieb (TUM), 
  Chris Wilson, Chandi Cumaranatunge, James Chartrand, Julie D, 
  Andy Miller, Colin (LEF), Oliver Terbu, Naomi, Brian

<kerri_lemoie> Hello! Will get started shortly.
<kerri_lemoie> @Manu - will mention the RWOT paper is part of 
  announcements.
<manu_sporny> /me nods.
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kerri Lemoie:  Hello everyone welcome to the July 18th VC edgy 
  you task force called today's topic is about the JF F VC edgy 
  plugfest number 2 and when we get started with some of our 
  boilerplate stuff and announcements and then we have chair and 
  Lou here with us to help us walk through what is going to happen 
  with the plans are for plugfest to and to start Gathering your 
  questions so that we can them and get.
Kerri Lemoie:  To get some answers.

Topic: IP Note

Kerri Lemoie:  OK first IP note anyone can participate in these 
  calls everyone is welcome however all sensitive contributions to 
  NECC work items even outside the BBC Edge you should be done by 
  members of the ccg with full IP our agreement signed to do this 
  you first should join W3 and make sure you have an account and 
  then you can use this link to join the ccg.
Kerri Lemoie: https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/join
Kerri Lemoie:  Faced with the ccg and I'm selling Peter problems 
  there we go.
Kerri Lemoie:  Ccg and read the agreement.

Topic: Call Notes

Kerri Lemoie:  He s these calls are recorded both audio and video 
  today we're only really going to have audio I don't think we'll 
  have any slides to present we're also using the chat you're going 
  to see that also we are transcribing this we have a robot 
  transcriber that does the best that it's can you can fix it if 
  you see something that it doesn't understand I hope it learn if 
  you see a term that is incorrect you can do a substitution you 
  can type S.
Kerri Lemoie:   Forward slash.
Kerri Lemoie:  The wrong word and then the correct word as I'm 
  putting in the chat right now.
Kerri Lemoie:  Oh so we'll use the cue system on these calls so 
  if you're new to these calls how that works is that you put a q+ 
  in the chat to add yourself to the queue and then if you decide 
  you no longer want to speak you put cute - and then what we do is 
  we check the queue and we go in the order that our folks are 
  queued up.

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

Kerri Lemoie:  Okay let's start with some introductions and 
  reintroduction this is there anyone that's new to the call today 
  that would like to introduce themselves if so you can cure 
  yourself up.
Kerri Lemoie:  And I'll make the same call up for any 
  reintroductions or updates on work that anyone's doing any 
  changes or anything you'd like to fill us in on here's your 
  opportunity to do so.
<john_marquez> I'm new, attempting to queue
Kerri Lemoie:  Marty here in the cute pig before.
Marty Reed:  Yeah so only because Dan blickensderfer therefore 
  from on a deck and I'll sit on LinkedIn but the we 3 and C LR 2.0 
  work groups have voted for to move to candidate final for the for 
  both the specs so there's this.
Marty Reed:   Security review that.
Marty Reed:  To be done and some internal work at one edtech but 
  then we should expect to see a can final public and up there I'm 
  going to say mid-august so.
Kerri Lemoie:  It's great thank you for giving us that update 
  Marty here when question I have in terms of the conversations 
  were having with the plugfest today for plugfest number one we 
  used a specific context file so that we could you stay away from 
  any changes that were happening in the meantime but would you say 
  the context file for obv 3 is steady enough to use now.
Marty Reed:  I would say once the internal review has been done 
  and the candidate final has been announced publicly then yes.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay we'll figure out how to navigate that thank 
  you.
Marty Reed:  No there's no yeah but I think generally speaking 
  yes the suspect that is out there right now is stable.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay they're very close everyone in case you're 
  wondering there they're very similar so I'm it's not that big of 
  a deal I was just curious about that.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you    in the queuethe queue.
Jon St. John:  Oh yes so my name is John Marquez I'm really 
  looking forward to learning today my background I'm currently CTO 
  at Fallon PBC implementing a verifiable credential wallet with 
  Adam and I'm just really here to soak up as much information as I 
  can and kind of get in where I fit and.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you very much appreciate that.
<simone_ravaioli> Welcome John !
Kerri Lemoie:  I'm making some corrections in the chat for the a 
  transcriber okay I will stop that all right anyone else here hey 
  Dmitri you have the floor.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Wait so just to double-check are we going to 
  have a separate announcements section or is this a joint 
  introductions announcements.

Topic: Announcements

Kerri Lemoie:  This is just introductions and reintroductions but 
  I can start announcements right now and then we can move on to 
  that.
Kerri Lemoie:  You can go first if you'd like since you're 
  already you already have before.
Simone Ravaoli: https://www.weboftrust.info/next-event-page.html
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Okay alright so so quick announcement so 
  rebooting web of trust conference which is really cool on 
  conference where you collaborate with others to write a paper at 
  the end of the conference that gets published so everybody web of 
  trust is happening in late September in the Netherlands this year 
  so the reason I bring it up is that the early Advance paper 
  discount the date is tomorrow.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Ink on the 19th.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Were you planning to attend the conference 
  please consider writing a paragraph of two or two of an advanced 
  paper and submitting it for a discount on the tickets that's it.
Kerri Lemoie:  DJ can I ask you a question about that.
Kerri Lemoie:  How final does the advance paper need to be there 
  was a it was submitted tomorrow as a draft could it be worked on 
  later.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yes correct that's right yeah so the the 
  they're not looking for you know like print-ready paper it's 
  definitely what you described.
Kerri Lemoie:  I think it's no thank you.
Kerri Lemoie:  Clear you have the floor.
Kaliya: I'm needed High I wanted to share about three events we 
  have coming up in August last summer we did this as well the 
  internet identity Workshop is hosting two special topic events 
  one is August 4th called The Business of SSI really supporting 
  folks looking at business models and adoption issues from that 
  lens being able to have a forum to.
Kaliya:  connect so it's a half day.
<dmitri_z> IIW is awesome  - highly recommend attending if you 
  haven’t already !
Kaliya: And Conference and then we're hosting on August 9th in 
  Asian time zones which means it's August 8 in the evening here in 
  North America digital identity across Asia to support folks who 
  are working in Asia and Asian time zones being able to 
  collaborate and connect and then we were thinking about doing it 
  event online.
Kaliya:  like web 3.
<phil_l_(p1)> RWoT paper guidelines (very simple):
Kaliya: And identity and then the decentralized social network 
  paper came out and a whole flurry of activity happened around 
  that so Heidi and I hide he's the producer of I w-was me are 
  collaborating with radical exchange and they're hosting a two-day 
  event on August 16th and August 18th called exploring.
Kaliya: For a decentralized societies I'm on my phone so I'll 
  figure out over the course of this getting links to all those 
  into the chat.
Kerri Lemoie:  Great thank you Clea.
Kerri Lemoie:  Deji you have before.
Jenn_G: Hi can you hear me.
Simone Ravaoli: 
  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/the-business-of-self-sovereign-identity-ssi-an-iiw-12-day-workshop-tickets-367890268697
Jenn_G: Sorry it's a new setup yes I'm based in st. Louis Midwest 
  cyber security management and kind of the conjunction of 
  management and Technology right now I've been dialing into these 
  calls through Jeff oh for about a month or so now and I did just 
  purchase the ticket for the iiw upcoming in November.
Jenn_G: You're be here and to attend that and right now just kind 
  of trying to stay informed as I navigate the current and upcoming 
  environments here in the Midwest so thank you.
<kaliya> What protections are in place to address the systemic 
  ongoing issues RWoT has with women and people of color and how 
  they experience the event?
Kerri Lemoie:  It's great thank you thanks for joining us 
  welcome.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay the queue is empty so I'm going to just make 
  another a few other announcements tomorrow for those of you who 
  are interested because I know this is come up a lot the ccg is 
  hosting a call on web 5 I'm putting a link to this here.
Kerri Lemoie:  Delete to the email announcement case you haven't 
  seen it.
<kerri_lemoie> web 5 CCG: 
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2022Jul/0048.html
Kerri Lemoie:  And I was just starting in on that I'm looking 
  forward to we were talking about trying to explore that as part 
  of this call to and if you can make sense to get started to 
  understand what that is all about.
<kerri_lemoie> displaying credentials: 
  https://github.com/w3c-ccg/vc-ed/issues/16
Kerri Lemoie:  Next my name is on the closet make calling him to 
  this to do this but their digital bizarre put out a paper in his 
  protocol on rendering verifiable credentials and this is a topic 
  that we've been talking about every CH you actually have an open 
  issue about about displaying credentials here put this in the 
  chat.
Kerri Lemoie:  You want to just come on real briefly and just 
  tell us about you know that this paper and then you know your 
  thoughts behind it.
<kerri_lemoie> Link to Manu's email: 
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2022Jul/0054.html
Manu Sporny:  Sure and thank you for the link I was like 
  scrambling to find it let me go ahead and do just a real quick 
  screen share promise to keep this short so there's a new 
  rebooting paper that I put forward around rendering verifiable 
  credentials hopefully everyone can see this the idea here is that 
  there are many Market verticals right now that are.
Manu Sporny:  Asking this question and and.
Manu Sporny:  Have a seat.
Manu Sporny:  Question right so like Dimitri and Kerry raised 
  this issue in the VC edu issue tracker months ago we have been 
  discussing this for years and so there's a suggestion that you 
  know hey let's get a let's get a first iteration of this thing 
  written down so the idea here is that if you have a verifiable 
  credential you want to be able to express it in a variety of 
  different ways meaning visually maybe through audio and then 
  maybe even through.
Manu Sporny:   Something like.
Kerri Lemoie: Paper: 
  https://github.com/WebOfTrustInfo/rwot11-the-hague/blob/master/advance-readings/rendering-verifiable-credentials.md
Manu Sporny:  Rail their accessibility needs that come along with 
  rendering these things and we just need to make sure that we're 
  inclusive when we display things so there's a paper out called 
  rendering verifiable credentials we're going to work on it at the 
  next rebooting the web trust 11 in The Hague in the Netherlands 
  and so yeah take a take a look at the paper the idea is we're 
  thinking of adding a field to the verifiable credentials data 
  format that gives.
Manu Sporny:   Gives clients ready.
Manu Sporny:  Options so if you wanted to render something as 
  visually rich as a University degree certificate or a 
  identification card or a certificate of origin for a vehicle or 
  produce we're trying to provide a mechanism to do that that's 
  easy to implement for everyone built on standards all that kind 
  of stuff while also ensuring that you're not disenfranchised 
  people that.
Manu Sporny:  Site needs hearing needs or people that don't have 
  sight and can't hear as well how do we render these things for 
  those individuals so that they can look at it that's it.
Kerri Lemoie:  It's great Maria is really great you don't even 
  Beyond accessibility which is critical of the audio VCI dead me 
  and really considered how that could be used in all sorts of 
  other circumstances to that's pretty neat.
<kaliya> Business of SSI - 
  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/the-business-of-self-sovereign-identity-ssi-an-iiw-12-day-workshop-tickets-367890268697
<manu_sporny> Please join us and help shape the rendering VCs 
  work! I forgot to mention that!
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay the queue is empty and the last thing I just 
  wanted to mention and feel free to keep yourself up if you have 
  any other announcements that if you haven't joined our mailing 
  list it is a good place to go we're going to start talking about 
  plugfest to and most of our discussions will happen on this 
  mailing list I'm going to put a link to it here.
Kerri Lemoie:   And the chat.
<kerri_lemoie> vc-edu mail list: 
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/
<sharon_leu> In the EDU use case, it's important to remember that 
  accredited institutions of higher ed have legal requirements re 
  digital engagement: http://udloncampus.cast.org/page/policy_legal
Kerri Lemoie:  This is the iPad page and add the top of this page 
  is a link for subscribe which is a mail to link and I'm you can 
  add your email address.
<kaliya> Digital identity across Asia - august 9th - 
  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/digital-identity-across-asia-an-iiw-12-day-workshop-tickets-374391784907
<tayken> Sorry, late anncmt: BadgeSummit (Aug 1-2) Boulder, CO
Taylor Kendall: https://www.thebadgesummit.com/

Topic: Main Topic: JFF VC-EDU Plugfest #2

Kerri Lemoie:  Okay so our main topic for today we can get 
  started on that now is the jmf we see a Jeep like that's number 
  two and what we're going to do today is just give you an overall 
  conceptual understanding of or try to fit could be a conceptual 
  understanding of what the what you're trying to accomplish with 
  life path number to talk about some Milestone dates that we are 
  working on and then also gather your questions let me not have 
  all the answers today but we'd love to queue up your.
Kerri Lemoie:   Questions and be able to get back to you on them.
Kerri Lemoie:  These are certainly of course as from jmf and ran 
  blood tests number one and is here to talk to us about plugfest 
  number two Sharon wanna take it from here.
Sharon Leu:  Yes thank you can everyone hear me.
<kaliya> Exploring Digital Identity for Decentralized Societies 
  Connecting the dots around Web3 / Metaverse Identity 
  Conversations a RadicalxChange Open Space unConference  
  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/exploring-digital-identity-for-decentralized-societies-tickets-385643188157?mc_cid=2321939e22&mc_eid=UNIQID
Sharon Leu:  Okay perfect so it's great to meet all of you or 
  hello for those of you who I've already met my name is Sharon Lou 
  and with an organization called jobs for the future we are a 
  National not-for-profit Organization that's interested in 
  promoting economic advancement and one of the things that it's 
  through the sort of transformation of the education and Workforce 
  systems one of the things that we have been thinking a lot about 
  is digital credentials as.
Sharon Leu:   A means of acknowledge.
<kaliya> August 16 and 18
Sharon Leu:  Get the abilities and skills of individuals and how 
  that might be foundational for a more Equitable Workforce and 
  education pathway for anyone so thank you for working with us on 
  plugfest one I thought so just as a rundown we've been having a 
  number of we have envisioned a number of plugfest similar to how 
  an eel John Ram them with scip but thinking about the collection 
  and sharing of education and Workforce credentials or.
Sharon Leu:   Or credentialed in those.
<kaliya> I’ll also share that DWeb Camp is happening August 24-28
Sharon Leu:  Context on June 9th we had our first plugfest it was 
  not really an interoperability demonstration as much as sort of 
  an introduction to the idea of an interoperability demonstration 
  where wallet implementers displayed a verifiable credentials in 
  their wallet sort of moving forward we have two more of these 
  planned over the next year and you know as the first one wrapped 
  up we post a.
Sharon Leu:   A question to the group which.
Sharon Leu:  Like what how should we order the next step and 
  there was some amount of discussion on on the list serve as well 
  as sort of offline about focusing on issuing versus focusing on 
  verifying and I think we discussed as a group with the co-chairs 
  of this group as well as some others and I think ultimately we 
  settled on focusing on this idea of issue as the next Focus area 
  and I think there were just a couple of.
Sharon Leu:   The main.
Sharon Leu:  What I mean there are a lot of practical reasons for 
  why you would pick one or the other and at the end of the day it 
  came down to in addition to demonstrating interoperability of the 
  credentials jmf and our funders in this exercise have a real 
  interest in establishing the utility of credentials for 
  advancement and in that case the closer that we can get to the 
  use of real credentials in a live production environment and the 
  the more.
Sharon Leu:   We can demonstrate that use of.
Sharon Leu:  Bible credentials actually impacts the lives of the 
  populations that we are concerned with and what that means is 
  that in the verification step it is a little bit more than a 
  wallet displaying a green check mark what we want to demonstrate 
  is that actually the meaning of you know all of the metadata in 
  contained within the verifiable credential itself has utility for 
  the person holding the credential as they pursue their 
  additional.
Sharon Leu:   These and this will take us some time.
Sharon Leu:  The kind of use cases that we think would 
  demonstrate this and so in order to buy ourselves some time and 
  to build up to this we thought let's focus on issuer next so the 
  exercise for plugfest to will be to display in your wallet 
  multiple credentials issued by multiple parties and I think the 
  number that we had picked was too so in order to the record the.
Sharon Leu:   Nicole I.
Sharon Leu:  Up for plugfest to is display two different 
  credentials to credentials issued by two different credential 
  issuers and we're not going to take for you I think what we're 
  not trying to do is force you into a different protocol but just 
  using the protocol that you already your wallet can already use 
  so we will get into this a little bit later about self-selecting 
  into three camps but I just want to say that's the general 
  overview.
Sharon Leu:  Is there like are there any questions about that 
  before I continue with some of the like Logistics.
Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah as soon as the key right now so let's see my 
  nose in the queue we do have go ahead good money.
Manu Sporny:  Yeah just most of that sounds pretty 
  straightforward Sharon I mean you know we will be focusing on 
  issuing focusing on getting stuff in the wallet and displaying 
  from two different issuers that feel straightforward are the well 
  I guess it's anyone in the community allowed to provide 
  infrastructure so specifically I'm thinking about you know we 
  just launched this chap EIEIO site that allows you to issue.
Manu Sporny:   Issue into credentials using.
Manu Sporny:  Sorry into digital wallets using the chappie NVC 
  API protocols we are contemplating allowing well we are going to 
  add multiple different issue or back end so that anyone 
  supporting the VC API issuance protocol can issue credentials is 
  that kind of are you looking for that kind of infrastructure 
  right now to smooth things along or are you kind of like that.
Manu Sporny:   At the.
Manu Sporny:  Whatever they want to do any thoughts on that what 
  about infrastructure here.
<kerri_lemoie> I'll be tracking all the questions
<deb_everhart> +q
Sharon Leu:  Yes okay so that's a great question and I was hoping 
  to punt that until a later week but I think what we'll do is 
  we'll do this in two parts will do two separate calls that will 
  occur simultaneously one is obviously for participation as a 
  wallet implementer but separately we're also going to do a call 
  for issuer so I think that that is when we're going to start 
  taking a look at what infrastructures already out there and 
  probably lean on some of the tools that you all have already 
  developed to make sure.
Sharon Leu:   Sure that there's a.
<brandon_muramatsu> I've been presuming DCC will provide a 
  VC-API-based issuer
Sharon Leu:  You regardless of which the issuing protocols you 
  select.
Kerri Lemoie:  But I didn't have a cure.
Manu Sporny: +1 Brandon, good to know, that should allow you to 
  plug right into the chapi.io framework (as an  example)
Sharon Leu:  Dimitri did you want to answer that question is that 
  why you popped in.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Are the quick answer is no you can definitely 
  be just a wallet or just an issue or two.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  So as Sharon mentioned we're going to put out 
  the call for both we recognize that most of the participants have 
  both a wallet and it sure but if you have just the one that's 
  totally fine as Sharon mentioned as we'll discuss further we 
  recognize that there are at least three and more protocol camp.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  That we see CGV Capi openid connect 
  foundations opens the next family of issuing protocols and Gifts 
  did Cam presentations Change Plus others so.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Here at the wall vendor don't have a bond 
  issuer we will we will provide.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  You're more issuers within the protocol family 
  that you can show interoperability with.
Kerri Lemoie: VC-API: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/vc-api/
<kerri_lemoie> OpenID Connect:  
  https://openid.net/wordpress-content/uploads/2022/05/OIDF-Whitepaper_OpenID-for-Verifiable-Credentials_FINAL_2022-05-12.pdf
<brandon_muramatsu> @manu, we've been running one based on our 
  open source sign-and-verify; we'll add documentation and more 
  support around it
Dmitri Zagidulin:  That's wonderful to hear.
<kerri_lemoie> DID-Comm Presentation Exchange: 
  https://identity.foundation/presentation-exchange/
Dmitri Zagidulin:  I'll be there.
Kerri Lemoie:  I think you are David see.
Kerri Lemoie:  That was you.
<manu_sporny> Looking forward to reading that (and hopefully 
  integrating with it), Brandon.
Kerri Lemoie:  I didn't either let's get snow thank you Deb you 
  have the floor please.
Deb Everhart:  So I think this is maybe a clarification and 
  question in order to make sure we're making the central to the 
  learner the wallet holder should we be using language that is 
  about some you know the wallet holder can accept into their 
  wallet credentials that have been issued from more than one party 
  just too.
Deb Everhart:   Just you know make sure.
<dmitri_z> wow good point , re language
Deb Everhart:  We're focusing on that individuals empowerment and 
  therefore also I think that you know even though being able to 
  transfer credentials from one wallet to another may not 
  technically be the one of the requirements for this plugfest if a 
  person is able to do that that would be another way of displaying 
  credentials from more than one issuer in the same wallet is that.
Sharon Leu:  Say that last part again I feel like I maybe lost 
  the train of thought on that.
Deb Everhart:  So I guess I'm just saying there there could be 
  you know a person has a wallet and two different issuers give 
  them offers for credentials that they can take those offers in 
  the same wallet that's one way of getting to credentials from two 
  different issues into the same wallet another way would be for a 
  person to be able to move a credential from another wallet into 
  this wallet that has a first credential.
Deb Everhart:   In it.
Deb Everhart:  Even though that might not be a requirement it 
  would be another way of displaying to credentials from different 
  issuers in the same wallet.
Sharon Leu:  Yes ish we can I think that that's really 
  interesting part of what we'd like to see as part of the third 
  one but taking the incremental small steps I feel like that we're 
  just going to focus on whether a while it can accept to 
  credentials.
Deb Everhart:  Right right yeah and I get that that's the scope 
  for this but if someone wanted to do it as a credential brought 
  in from another wallet I presume that would also meet the 
  criteria of to credentials from different issuers in the same 
  wallet.
Sharon Leu:  We can talk about that we can we can talk about that 
  I think that it's slightly different but you're right 
  functionally it has the same outcome for the individual and we 
  might want to consider that but we haven't specifically scoped 
  the technical tasks yet so as we do that we'll definitely discuss 
  that.
Kerri Lemoie:  I was I was going to say the same answer Sharon I 
  mean in part as part of plugfest would we had some stretch goals 
  and it's something we could talk about that being a stretch goal 
  for this one so I'm cute I'm saving that question so we can talk 
  about it.
Simone Ravaoli:  Everyone just wanted to emphasize the fact that 
  even though we're focusing on the issue as where we would be very 
  eager to unboard issue as that are not natively in already during 
  VCS and so I'm referring to the traditional magic platforms that 
  are issuing the millions of credentials now and that with the 
  Advent of ob3 in a will now be able to share file credentials and 
  so we very much look forward to I guess in.
Simone Ravaoli:   Encourage them to join this plugfest.
Simone Ravaoli:  So that ultimately we connect them into this 
  journey around the shin verifiable credentials as much as we want 
  to look at wallet providers I became you know a credential can be 
  exchanged between wallets or walnuts they need to show the 
  ability to receive from two different issuers I like to see the 
  issue from the other angle so I'd like to see traditional issue 
  as like being able to issue into two different kinds.
Simone Ravaoli:   Or wallets or maybe that's you know bias.
Simone Ravaoli:  That's how you know initial perspective.
Kerri Lemoie:  Money you are you're in the key twice you can have 
  the floor.
Kerri Lemoie: +1 Simone
Manu Sporny:  Yeah sorry I was taking taking notes on which 
  questions to add so these are just questions with no no need to 
  answer them right now the first one is whether or not did 
  authentication is going to be required in the protocol so when 
  you you know go to an issue and you wanted to issue something to 
  you are we going to include data on Earth or not and then the 
  second question.
Manu Sporny:  Aaron you mentioned that there would be maybe 
  multiple verifiable potentials and plugfest to I'm just wondering 
  what those would be would they just be two variations on an open 
  badge or are we looking for something else so on and so forth.
<manu_sporny> Ok, thanks.
Sharon Leu:  I think that I'll just quickly try to answer the 
  second one by saying that I think we're going to if we can still 
  use an open badge in the version 3 which is I think why carry 
  Brad brought her question up to Marty earlier so we'll take a 
  look into that and then and then share more when we know.
<manu_sporny> Right, thanks.
Kerri Lemoie:  You hear of keys empty right now.
Kerri Lemoie:  And I think that we probably are going to do did 
  ask requirements I must do just like noting that down so we can 
  get our FAQ together and answer later.
Sharon Leu:  I guess well I was going to talk about like timing 
  and Logistics but if you feel like there's other things that we 
  should talk about because those are just you know timing and 
  Logistics.
Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah I do have a list of dates if you if you want 
  to go over this debate I got you have this to the maybe we could 
  back into them starting with November.
Sharon Leu:  Yeah so I yeah okay so we haven't figured out 
  exactly what this is going to be like obviously some of you 
  participated in the first one and real and I think learned that 
  the like in person hybrid skills like need Improvement so if you 
  want to send me an e-mail separately about your suggestions for 
  how one might sort of curate that kind of experience for anyone 
  who is whether in person or online send me an email and let me 
  know but.
Sharon Leu:   Overall I think what we're aiming for is over.
Sharon Leu:  17Th was just the day before iiw start and I know 
  that several of us will be there in person and so that is the 
  root of my like how can we improve this experience for everyone 
  question Carrie do you want to add something to that.
Kerri Lemoie:  I'm just going to put that day in the chat and for 
  everybody that be November 16.
<kerri_lemoie> Nov 16 - IIW
Kerri Lemoie:  I got it yep.
<kaliya> @dmitri - What protections are in place to address the 
  systemic ongoing issues RWoT has with women and people of color 
  and how they experience the event?
<kerri_lemoie> Aug 15 – open registration
Sharon Leu:  Yeah I guess so okay it's whatever day it is that is 
  before I W starts I'm not great with dates so okay cool so we 
  want to give as much lead time as possible before that and so 
  what we're going to do is honor around August 15th we're going to 
  do the open call for a wallet implementers to participate 
  simultaneously will do the sort of review and open call for 
  issuers to.
Sharon Leu:  So Kate still on.
Sharon Leu:  So that's sort of the date to note and we'll try to 
  have our sort of participation documents ready by then they're 
  not quite ready now because I think we still have a few things 
  that we want to work out ahead of that though we're going to try 
  to have like a more technical am a on August 8 and then I guess 
  Dimitri has volunteered kindly to go over the three different 
  protocols at some point I think TVD.
Sharon Leu:  And that's it from my end scary is there anything 
  that I've missed.
Kerri Lemoie:  No that was right if you want to provide the 
  overall our overall approach and these dates and then see if 
  there's any other questions see what else you think you need to 
  know your that will help us inform you so I'm David over here in 
  the queue go ahead.
Sharon Leu:  Okay I'm going to let someone else answer that 
  question but I will say one other logistics point that I forgot 
  that you prompted me on David which is not everyone that 
  participated the first round was able to do it and that's okay 
  and not everyone who not every wallet Implement like not every 
  wallet implementer was able to produce a demo right and so what 
  we want to do is continue to make this as open as possible and so 
  for anyone who did not attempt to participate.
Sharon Leu:   In the first place fast.
Sharon Leu:  Getting the jff badge into their wallet is sort of 
  our ticket to entry for the second one but it's going to be 
  slightly different for you if you participated in the first one 
  and I will turn it over to Dimitri to say more words about that.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Thanks Sharon so good question David so first 
  of all we're still working on issuing the badges for everyone 
  since we have such a plethora of different did methods and so on 
  but to answer your question we were hoping just to email it to 
  you right and then you can get into your wallets.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   However you got.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  The badge during the plugfest so we absolutely 
  recognize that.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Chewing into wallet is what we're going to be 
  testing for November many people aren't there yet so we're just 
  going to email the badges.
<manu_sporny> I'm loving the VC-over-email protocol. :)
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yeah so we'll be issuing JWT or linked data 
  credentials depending on your preference that you filled out on 
  the spreadsheet.
Kerri Lemoie:  Awesome in a job where I probably need to take the 
  floor I just want to make one correction that I got the iaw date 
  wrong IW runs remember 15th through the 17th so we're looking on 
  meeting Monday the 14th.
John Kuo:  You probably aren't really prepared to answer this 
  question but is there a preference on a participant being an 
  issuer or receiver or can a participant even be both potentially.
Kerri Lemoie:  That's a good question Sharon answer now or later 
  I would think you could be both.
Sharon Leu:  I think you could be both but the key is that it has 
  to be two different ones so if you are in any capacity 
  participating as a wallet implementer you can issue to yourself 
  but that doesn't really count as interop really.
Sharon Leu:  Okay I don't know why.
John Kuo:  I kind of actually made that assumption that you 
  couldn't issue teens oh but you know I was didn't even bother 
  asking that because I assume that that wouldn't be interrupt.
Sharon Leu:  Cool so TV.
Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah we did that as part of a plug Crestwood but 
  for plugfest two we really want to encourage more Interactive.
Kerri Lemoie:  Sorry go ahead shared Universe book are you.
Sharon Leu:  No is this going to say more on that later.
Kerri Lemoie:  JoAdel yo have the floor.
JoAdel: Hi so unfortunately we weren't able to participate in the 
  first plugfest I was just wondering is there a way that we could 
  get either the email or whatever we need to kind of pass the 
  entry requirement to participate in plug this too.
Sharon Leu:  Yes we don't have a formal process for that but 
  effectively it will be that you send us the preferred method of 
  having a VC issue to you and we issue a to you display it will 
  have a little bit more detail about that later but I will 
  definitely note to send you a specific email and we'll also 
  public will put like instructions on the list serve as well.
Kerri Lemoie:  And you know for a plugfest wine we had a web page 
  that we hosted at BC edu so we'll do the same thing for plugfest 
  to and we can get that out there to everyone and feel free to use 
  the mailing list to post more questions and we will take it from 
  there.
Kerri Lemoie:  I'm right now the Q is still empty does anybody 
  else have any other questions.
<oliver_terbu> what is the "issued" column in the spreadsheet?
Manu Sporny:  Thanks so coordination are we going to coordinate 
  through a mixture of vce do calls and plugfest specific calls 
  both will shift the one versus the other what are the thoughts 
  there.
Manu Sporny: +1 To coordinate on VC EDU
Sharon Leu:  I kind of want to put this question to Kerri but I 
  think mostly will try to coordinate on the VC edu mostly because 
  okay so like it's kind of hard with multiple strands of 
  conversations going on and we want to drive we want to sort of 
  centralized all the conversations to the extent that we can and 
  make sure that there are no real offline conversations that 
  everything is open.
Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah exactly probably what we'll do in terms of 
  email communication is used to be see edgy mailing list so that 
  you know we can communicate in a place where we can like look up 
  the emails me it's great that we have that archive and also so 
  that those who aren't participating in the class can learn from 
  our questions and what we're doing we have a lot of great 
  questions that came up during plug class 1 so I most of them will 
  be there.
Kerri Lemoie:   Anna bcig week.
Deb Everhart: +1 To coordinate here so it's all in the same place
Kerri Lemoie:  Eating's I'm guessing here will probably have like 
  one or two like a cohort meetings if we need to and we'll see 
  we'll figure that out as we go.
Sharon Leu:  Yeah I think that's right.
<sharon_leu> @Oliver - once the email with the badge is sent.
<kim> !!
Kerri Lemoie:  I don't see any other questions in here I am super 
  amped about this and we did a lot with plugfest one there are a 
  lot of new people who were introduced to be see a Jew and open 
  Badges and then we had a lot of open badges folks who are 
  interested in learning more about VCS and so I'm excited to see 
  more and more of that as we go I mean I think these kinds of 
  initiatives are really have been really very helpful and useful 
  and I'm each time we do it I think they get even better.
Kerri Lemoie:   Filled long you're in the Kia.
Phil_L_(P1): Yeah can you hear me okay I'm just wondering if it 
  occurred to me that one of the things that might it's not a 
  technical thing per se but it would be helpful or be interesting 
  at least to see if we could invite a couple of people who are 
  sort of in the in the discipline area of being ethnologist 
  interested in this kind of changing social space too.
Phil_L_(P1): To participate and give them and encourage them to 
  reach out to the different teams if they have questions and such 
  with the goal of getting them to write up from there no Centric 
  perspective the transition that seems to be implied by this 
  approach of sharing credentials about each other and the 
  community that's involved so look I'm just trying to.
Phil_L_(P1):  wondering wondering if there.
Phil_L_(P1): There might be a couple of journalists or 
  ethnographic non refers that would be interested in this space if 
  we reached out to them and whether that would be a welcome 
  activity.
Sharon Leu:  If you have recommendations on people who you think 
  might be good for this please definitely send them I think one of 
  the things that we have been doing is we have a part we jmf is 
  partnered with a couple of different organizations for this 
  project overall like this using using data and digital credential 
  links project and one and and two of the partners I think you 
  know fill our Brookings as well.
Sharon Leu:   Laz digital promise.
Sharon Leu:  And one of the key things that Brookings has been 
  working on is how to describe the impact of using learning and 
  employment records and whether this kind of credential like 
  portability that we are driving towards on a technical level 
  actually can have impact on populations of that we are interested 
  in so there will be some of that going on sort of Honor 
  programmatic level probably not as much on a technical level but 
  I think you're right that it would be an interesting 
  conversation.
Sharon Leu:   Ation to try to bring those together.
Phil_L_(P1): Yeah that no one person that's a Pulitzer fellow 
  whose area of specialty has been more in the applications of AI 
  to to job workflow processes at NYU that might be a candidate for 
  this kind of thing but.
Sharon Leu:  Greek thank you.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay I don't see anyone else in the queue and I 
  think you've gone over the questions that we have now Sharon or 
  actually I should call and Demetrius ammonia do you have anything 
  else you'd like that to you while we're here.
Simone Ravaoli:  Yeah for on my side I think reiterating what I 
  was saying earlier I think it's important that we look at issuers 
  that are tangential to this community so the ones that are 
  currently to you know not verifiable credentials this is the 
  opportunity for them to onboard and leveraging you know the tiny 
  pool of hopefully be 3 so if.
Simone Ravaoli:   If this community are people.
Simone Ravaoli:  Are in those organizations will send out a call 
  for issuers but certainly I'm sure you may have questions around 
  how you engage with those three protocols already so that's all 
  fair in terms of you're starting to ask those questions and see 
  how you know what's the the path to onboarding so definitely you 
  know be vocal about that and gauge Arabi.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you spam and eggs calling me out of order in 
  the cubic this following up to some money question.
Nate_Otto_(he/him): Yeah I just wanted to mention some related 
  times to this and support from one edtech formerly IMS the IMs 
  quarterly meeting will be right around the same time in 
  mid-november I'm not sure on the exact dates and that is the goal 
  time for I think the finalization of the open badges V3 and CLR 
  2.0 specifications and also in addition leading up to that there 
  is like a group of one-eyed cat.
Nate_Otto_(he/him):  members who are.
Nate_Otto_(he/him): Of marketing coordination push to those 
  existing issuers for 2.0 and helping create sources on how to 
  upgrade from 2.0 3.0 so I'm sure there will be plenty of 
  opportunity to connect these efforts as things move forward but 
  there probably will be some good support for doing what's money 
  and suggesting getting some of those existing open by this 2.0 
  issuers on board.
Kerri Lemoie:  Great actually that's why I keep myself up to so 
  Charming to calling you in one second we're thinking about 
  reaching out to issuers to Nate if you don't mind putting out the 
  call at edtech went to check to see if anyone is interested in 
  have them reach out to us specifically those who may not be on 
  these calls but are on those I would love to hear from them so 
  they could be part of this this this plugfest specifically before 
  then.
Nate_Otto_(he/him): It sounds good and Marty I'll enlist you to 
  try and do the same.
Marty Reed: :+1:
John Kuo:  Hi so I'm at my question might be leading into 
  logistical 14 Sharon I was taking a quick glance over the 
  previous participant cohorts and trying to see if there was going 
  to be enough people who share the same protocol stack that we use 
  to create like a decent enough number of people to exchange and I 
  think that there's a total of three so we would be.
John Kuo:   You know I'm listening.
John Kuo:  You know some people will have a like a large group of 
  interrupt participants and others will be quite prescribed I 
  guess I guess that's okay as long as I guess there's a minimum 
  size of three in a group so but I for one would I was alarmed as 
  to whether or not there would be even enough.
Sharon Leu:  That might make it easier honestly but you know 
  hopefully as we put out that open call for more implementers that 
  you will also have more friends in your group.
Kerri Lemoie:  This and just to follow up on that answer to yeah 
  exactly and this is part of what we're going to work out where 
  we're going to sort of bezel somewhat flexible in this planning 
  process so we can see how that turns out yes hopefully there will 
  be enough or hopefully we can make it so there are enough or come 
  up with some other way of going about it but we will we'll get 
  there.
Kerri Lemoie:   It's a good question.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay does anyone have anything else.
Kerri Lemoie:  If not I will give us all about 9 more minutes and 
  we'll call This And of the call for now and then we will follow 
  up soon on August 8th we have the AMA scheduled for this will be 
  doing some work over the next few weeks to prepare for that feel 
  free to reach out and ask any questions and help us get the word 
  out so we can get as many people participating as possible so do 
  you have anything else before we close.
Sharon Leu:  Nope that's it just send us questions comments 
  things that we may have missed and we really look forward to 
  working with everyone again soon.
<deb_everhart> thanks everyone, exciting!
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay great thank you everyone have a good week.
<sharon_leu> Thanks!
<tim_dutta> Thank you!
<manu_sporny> Woo hoo, excited to participate again!!! :)

Received on Tuesday, 19 July 2022 22:09:57 UTC