- From: Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 11:42:15 -0500
- To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
- Cc: Birkir Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>, ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <201601131650.u0DGoI1b026307@d01av03.pok.ibm.com>
Bryan,
You could have an OLAP like tree with information in the leaves. For
instance you could have a tree for a year. At the top node you provide the
total sales for the year. The tree has a branch for each quarter. Each
branch reports the total sales for the quarter. The quarters have leaves
for each month with a total for the month. Inside the month is a list of
week by week sales or perhaps are are 5 reports (articles) or whatever one
report for each store. I have seen things like this implemented as nested
lists and using the roles of tree, group and tree item are used. You can
imaging a control like this appearing on an executive's dashboard.
I have also used trees as shadow DOM's for charts so AT could read the
shadow DOM and get the chart information.
Regards,
Fred Esch
Watson, IBM, W3C
Accessibility
IBM Watson Watson Release Management and Quality
From: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
To: Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: Birkir Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>, ARIA Working
Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Date: 01/12/2016 06:52 PM
Subject: RE: Issue with ARIA 1.1 regarding which roles include children
presentational = true ?
Thanks, can you provide an example of which ones?
From: Fred Esch [mailto:fesch@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 10:36 AM
To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
Cc: Birkir Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>; ARIA Working Group
<public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Issue with ARIA 1.1 regarding which roles include children
presentational = true ?
Bryan,
Role treeitem should not be children presentational true. A element with
the role treeitem can have children that are semantically important and
should be included in the accessibility tree.
Regards,
Fred Esch
Watson, IBM, W3C
Accessibility
IBM Watson Watson Release Management and
Quality
Inactive hide details for Bryan Garaventa ---01/11/2016 10:00:42 PM---Good
question, I'm not sure, would be good to get others Bryan Garaventa
---01/11/2016 10:00:42 PM---Good question, I'm not sure, would be good to
get others opinions about this. I'm concerned at which
From: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
To: Birkir Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>
Cc: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Date: 01/11/2016 10:00 PM
Subject: RE: Issue with ARIA 1.1 regarding which roles include children
presentational = true ?
Good question, I'm not sure, would be good to get others opinions about
this.
I'm concerned at which level it should stop making sense, such as embedded
lists, tables, etc. None of that works intuitively in a link for example.
-----Original Message-----
From: Birkir Gunnarsson [mailto:birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 5:34 PM
To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
Cc: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Issue with ARIA 1.1 regarding which roles include children
presentational = true ?
Links can include block elements in html5.
Should those elements be ignored when they have a semantic role?
example:
<a href="#"><h2>Foo</h2</a>
Should assistive technologies expose this is an h2 link, or just as a link?
On 1/11/16, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
> Before I file this as an issue, I wanted to run this by those here in
> case I've got any of the details behind this incorrect.
>
> So, according to the children presentational description at
> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#h-childrenarepresentational
>
> This seemingly means that embedded child roles are not exposed by the
> user agent, but instead a flat labelling mechanism is used instead no
> matter what type of content is contained within these roles. Is that
right?
>
> Currently only the following roles include this property:
> button
> img
> math
> progressbar
> separator
> scrollbar
> slider
>
> So this seems right, a button cannot include children with roles like
> link, slider, region, tablist, textbox, listbox, radio, checkbox,
> etc., because that wouldn't make any sense.
>
> So, with that logic, shouldn't all of the following roles also include
> children presentational = true ?
>
> checkbox
> combobox
> link
> menuitem
> menuitemcheckbox
> menuitemradio
> option
> radio
> searchbox
> spinbutton
> switch
> tab
> textbox
> treeitem
>
> This seems logical, because none of the above roles are 'composite'
> widgets.
> https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#composite
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Senior Accessibility Subject Matter Expert | Deque Systems
2121 Cooperative Way, Suite 210
Herndon, VA, 20171
Ph: (919) 607-27 53
Twitter: @birkir_gun
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<html><body><p>Bryan,<br><br>You could have an OLAP like tree with information in the leaves. For instance you could have a tree for a year. At the top node you provide the total sales for the year. The tree has a branch for each quarter. Each branch reports the total sales for the quarter. The quarters have leaves for each month with a total for the month. Inside the month is a list of week by week sales or perhaps are are 5 reports (articles) or whatever one report for each store. I have seen things like this implemented as nested lists and using the roles of tree, group and tree item are used. You can imaging a control like this appearing on an executive's dashboard. <br><br>I have also used trees as shadow DOM's for charts so AT could read the shadow DOM and get the chart information. <br><br>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td width="473" colspan="2" valign="middle"><div align="center"><font size="4" face="Verdana">Regards, <br><br>Fred Esch <br>Watson, IBM, W3C Accessibility</font></div></td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><td width="130" valign="middle"><img src="cid:1__=0ABBF5AADFC97BB28f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" width="163" height="23" alt="IBM Watson" align="bottom"></td><td width="342" valign="middle"><font size="4" face="Verdana">Watson Release Management and Quality </font></td></tr></table><br><br><img width="16" height="16" src="cid:2__=0ABBF5AADFC97BB28f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" border="0" alt="Inactive hide details for Bryan Garaventa ---01/12/2016 06:52:03 PM---Thanks, can you provide an example of which ones? From: F"><font color="#424282">Bryan Garaventa ---01/12/2016 06:52:03 PM---Thanks, can you provide an example of which ones? From: Fred Esch [<a href="mailto:fesch@us.ibm.com">mailto:fesch@us.ibm.com</a>]</font><br><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">From: </font><font size="2">Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com></font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">To: </font><font size="2">Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Cc: </font><font size="2">Birkir Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>, ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org></font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Date: </font><font size="2">01/12/2016 06:52 PM</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Subject: </font><font size="2">RE: Issue with ARIA 1.1 regarding which roles include children presentational = true ?</font><br><hr width="100%" size="2" align="left" noshade style="color:#8091A5; "><br><br><br><font color="#1F497D" face="Calibri">Thanks, can you provide an example of which ones?</font><br><font color="#1F497D" face="Calibri"> </font><br><b><font face="Calibri">From:</font></b><font face="Calibri"> Fred Esch [</font><font face="Calibri"><a href="mailto:fesch@us.ibm.com">mailto:fesch@us.ibm.com</a></font><font face="Calibri">] </font><b><font face="Calibri"><br>Sent:</font></b><font face="Calibri"> Tuesday, January 12, 2016 10:36 AM</font><b><font face="Calibri"><br>To:</font></b><font face="Calibri"> Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com></font><b><font face="Calibri"><br>Cc:</font></b><font face="Calibri"> Birkir Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>; ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org></font><b><font face="Calibri"><br>Subject:</font></b><font face="Calibri"> RE: Issue with ARIA 1.1 regarding which roles include children presentational = true ?</font><br><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"> </font><p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Bryan, <br><br>Role treeitem should not be children presentational true. A element with the role treeitem can have children that are semantically important and should be included in the accessibility tree. <br><br></font><p><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td width="404" colspan="2" valign="middle"><div align="center"><font size="5" face="Verdana">Regards, <br><br>Fred Esch <br>Watson, IBM, W3C Accessibility</font></div></td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><td width="130" valign="middle"><img src="cid:1__=0ABBF5AADFC97BB28f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" width="163" height="23" alt="IBM Watson" align="bottom"></td><td width="274" valign="middle"><font size="5" face="Verdana">Watson Release Management and Quality </font></td></tr></table><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br><br></font><img src="cid:2__=0ABBF5AADFC97BB28f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" width="16" height="16" alt="Inactive hide details for Bryan Garaventa ---01/11/2016 10:00:42 PM---Good question, I'm not sure, would be good to get others "><font size="4" color="#424282" face="Times New Roman">Bryan Garaventa ---01/11/2016 10:00:42 PM---Good question, I'm not sure, would be good to get others opinions about this. I'm concerned at which</font><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br></font><font color="#5F5F5F" face="Times New Roman"><br>From: </font><font face="Times New Roman">Bryan Garaventa <</font><a href="mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com"><u><font color="#0000FF" face="Times New Roman">bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com</font></u></a><font face="Times New Roman">></font><font color="#5F5F5F" face="Times New Roman"><br>To: </font><font face="Times New Roman">Birkir Gunnarsson <</font><a href="mailto:birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com"><u><font color="#0000FF" face="Times New Roman">birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com</font></u></a><font face="Times New Roman">></font><font color="#5F5F5F" face="Times New Roman"><br>Cc: </font><font face="Times New Roman">ARIA Working Group <</font><a href="mailto:public-aria@w3.org"><u><font color="#0000FF" face="Times New Roman">public-aria@w3.org</font></u></a><font face="Times New Roman">></font><font color="#5F5F5F" face="Times New Roman"><br>Date: </font><font face="Times New Roman">01/11/2016 10:00 PM</font><font color="#5F5F5F" face="Times New Roman"><br>Subject: </font><font face="Times New Roman">RE: Issue with ARIA 1.1 regarding which roles include children presentational = true ?</font><br><hr width="100%" size="2" align="left" noshade><br><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"><br><br></font><font face="Courier New"><br>Good question, I'm not sure, would be good to get others opinions about this.<br><br>I'm concerned at which level it should stop making sense, such as embedded lists, tables, etc. None of that works intuitively in a link for example.<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Birkir Gunnarsson [</font><a href="mailto:birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com"><u><font color="#0000FF" face="Courier New">mailto:birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com</font></u></a><font face="Courier New">] <br>Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 5:34 PM<br>To: Bryan Garaventa <</font><a href="mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com"><u><font color="#0000FF" face="Courier New">bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com</font></u></a><font face="Courier New">><br>Cc: ARIA Working Group <</font><a href="mailto:public-aria@w3.org"><u><font color="#0000FF" face="Courier New">public-aria@w3.org</font></u></a><font face="Courier New">><br>Subject: Re: Issue with ARIA 1.1 regarding which roles include children presentational = true ?<br><br>Links can include block elements in html5.<br>Should those elements be ignored when they have a semantic role?<br>example:<br><a href="#"><h2>Foo</h2</a><br>Should assistive technologies expose this is an h2 link, or just as a link?<br><br><br>On 1/11/16, Bryan Garaventa <</font><a href="mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com"><u><font color="#0000FF" face="Courier New">bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com</font></u></a><font face="Courier New">> wrote:<br>> Before I file this as an issue, I wanted to run this by those here in <br>> case I've got any of the details behind this incorrect.<br>><br>> So, according to the children presentational description at <br>> </font><a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#h-childrenarepresentational"><u><font color="#0000FF" face="Courier New">http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#h-childrenarepresentational</font></u></a><font face="Courier New"><br>><br>> This seemingly means that embedded child roles are not exposed by the <br>> user agent, but instead a flat labelling mechanism is used instead no <br>> matter what type of content is contained within these roles. Is that right?<br>><br>> Currently only the following roles include this property:<br>> button<br>> img<br>> math<br>> progressbar<br>> separator<br>> scrollbar<br>> slider<br>><br>> So this seems right, a button cannot include children with roles like <br>> link, slider, region, tablist, textbox, listbox, radio, checkbox, <br>> etc., because that wouldn't make any sense.<br>><br>> So, with that logic, shouldn't all of the following roles also include <br>> children presentational = true ?<br>><br>> checkbox<br>> combobox<br>> link<br>> menuitem<br>> menuitemcheckbox<br>> menuitemradio<br>> option<br>> radio<br>> searchbox<br>> spinbutton<br>> switch<br>> tab<br>> textbox<br>> treeitem<br>><br>> This seems logical, because none of the above roles are 'composite'<br>> widgets.<br>> </font><a href="https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#composite"><u><font color="#0000FF" face="Courier New">https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#composite</font></u></a><font face="Courier New"><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br><br><br>--<br>Birkir R. Gunnarsson<br>Senior Accessibility Subject Matter Expert | Deque Systems<br>2121 Cooperative Way, Suite 210<br>Herndon, VA, 20171<br><br>Ph: (919) 607-27 53<br>Twitter: @birkir_gun<br></font><br><BR>
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Received on Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:50:54 UTC