- From: Maggie Cusack <MCUSACK@gw.dot.state.ny.us>
- Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:14:55 -0400
- To: <xml-dist-app@w3.org>
Would there be flexibility in Eamon's approach to also allow for other "ML" usage in thefirst "layer" such as GML....? >>> "Eamon O'Tuathail" <eamon.otuathail@clipcode.com> 07/06/01 09:55am >>> > I would be cautious applying too much of a layered view - > especially as SOAP can be used in combination with a > variety of underlying protocols that traditionally are > seen as belonging to different layers. Hmmm ... Is this really correct? I would argue that the "binding" should be a thin veneer between the messaging layer and the application protocol layer, and nothing else. If we stick to this rule then we *do* get obvious layering, which will give us a much cleaner architecture. We should be aiming for a stack such as: +------------------------------------- | | XMLP/SOAP (Messaging layer - describes the soap envelopes, etc.) | +---------- <---- (binding describes this interface only, not below it) | | BEEP or HTTP or Custom or ... (Application protocol layer - describes | how apps exchange messages) | +------------------------------------- | TCP or SCTP or ... (Transport layer - how the bits are carried) +------------------------------------- The problem with the current situation is that "binding" can mean anything - and this gives rise to the 'super'-binding for TCP which actually defines a mini-application protocol just for SOAP inside the binding. I think we should acknowledge that this exists, give it a name (one may be chosen that does not offend anyone - 'custom', 'dedicated', 'SOAP-specific', etc.), and when examining the options for carrying SOAP envelopes we can compare "BEEP over TCP" vs. "Custom over TCP" vs. "HTTP over TCP" and we get clean layering. I should say I don't see a problem with having a dedicated application protocol for SOAP (it might make sense in some situations), but I do see a problem trying to hide it within the binding. > ... different underlying protocols provided different service > abstractions ... and that some bindings may be thin and others thick Obviously different bindings will not be all of the same size, but the problem with having such a thick binding (that includes an application protocol) is that it breaks the clean layering. >> If the underlying protocol merely transports the bits (e.g. TCP) - who >> describes ... session establishment (where to connect to), how transport >> security is provisioned, what are the rules for authentication, what >> support is there for intermediaries (e.g. to get through firewalls - >> [not talking about SOAP intermediaries here]), how errors are >> reported (of the underlying protocol - not SOAP Faults) etc., etc. > ALL of these things can be provided by underlying protocols, > in-message SOAP blocks, pre-arranged convention, voodoo or a > combination of these sources If we skip the voodoo, ignore pre-arranged conventions as they usually cause problems - especially with wide deployment, I would question whether SOAP blocks can gives us the above (note I specifically excluded SOAP aspects in above), so we are left with 'underlying protocols'. A transport protocol such as TCP carries the bits, so something above that, an application protocol, provides this functionality... which is precisely my point. Eamon
Received on Friday, 6 July 2001 10:16:24 UTC