- From: Stumbo, William K <WStumbo@crt.xerox.com>
- Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:15:01 -0400
- To: www-ws-desc@w3.org
- Cc: jmarsh@microsoft.com, "Stumbo, William K" <WStumbo@crt.xerox.com>
Web Services Description Working Group
September 19, 2002
Attendance
Present:
Mike Ballantyne Electronic Data Systems
David Booth W3C
Allen Brookes Rogue Wave Software
Roberto Chinnici Sun Microsystems
Glen Daniels Macromedia
Youenn Fablet Canon
Tom Jordahl Macromedia
Jacek Kopecky Systinet
Sandeep Kumar Cisco Systems
Philippe Le Hégaret W3C
Amelia Lewis TIBCO
Kevin Canyang Liu SAP
Jonathan Marsh Chair (Microsoft)
Jeff Mischkinsky Oracle
Dale Moberg Cyclone Commerce
Jean-Jacques Moreau Canon
Arthur Ryman IBM
Waqar Sadiq Electronic Data Systems
Adi Sakala IONA Technologies
Jeffrey Schlimmer Microsoft
Igor Sedukhin Computer Associates
William Stumbo Xerox
Jerry Thrasher Lexmark
William Vambenepe Hewlett-Packard
Sanjiva Weerawarana IBM
Don Wright Lexmark
Joyce Yang Oracle
Regrets:
Michael Champion Software AG
Laurent De Teneuille L'Echangeur
Tim Finin University of Maryland
Dietmar Gaertner Software AG
Steve Graham Global Grid Forum
Martin Gudgin Microsoft
Dan Kulp IONA
Steve Lind AT&T
Michael Mealling Verisign
Stefano Pogliani Sun
Daniel Schutzer Citigroup
Dave Solo Citigroup
Steve Tuecke Global Grid Forum
Barbara Zengler DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology
Prasad Yendluri webMethods, Inc.
Absent:
Mike Davoren W. W. Grainger
Michael Mahan Nokia
Pallavi Malu Intel
Mike McHugh W. W. Grainger
Don Mullen Tibco
Johan Pauhlsson L'Echangeur
Sandra Swearingen U.S. Department of Defense, U.S. Air Force
1. Assign scribe. Lucky minute taker for this week is:
Bill Stumbo (yee haw!)
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2. Approval of minutes:
- Sept 5 telcon [3]
Approved.
- Sept 9-11 FTF [4]
Approved.
Minor concern about misquotes in IRC log. Discussion on minutes
vs. transcription. General concern with identifying key points.
Suggestion to use section headings to help group topics.
AI -- all: Send any missing action items to Jonathan's attention.
[3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0023.html
[4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0065.html
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3. Review of Action items.
DONE 2002-07-21: GlenD to send DavidB details on hosting November
F2F
2002-09-19: URL posted to IRC. [25]
Glen states to expect additional updates
[25] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/04/f2fNovLogistics.html
RETIRED 2002-07-21: Jeffrey & Gudge to flesh out a proposal for
omitting operation from soap binding.
2002-09-19: Part of the hoisting proposal. Need to
verify
completeness in upcoming draft.
CONTINUE 2002-07-21: Don Mullen to write up
an issue on making the transport attribute
match the SOAP binding framework.
2002-09-19: Action item reworded.
DONE [5] 2002-09-05: Deitmar to extract remaining questions/issues from
[6] and sent out in a new email thread to be opened
as a new issue(s).
Face to face actions follow:
PENDING 2002-09-09: Sanjiva to redo part 3.2 of his binding proposal.
PENDING 2002-09-09: Gudge to check whether there is already an issue
against Part 2: can you define different
encodingStyles for different children of
soap:Body (message parts).
PENDING 2002-09-10: Steve and Gudge to write up the portType extensibility
proposal.
2002-09-19: Action item reworded.
PENDING 2002-09-10: Sanjiva to produce a proposal for equivalence of
(at least) top-level components in the next couple
of weeks.
PENDING 2002-09-10: Gudge; Jeffrey Schlimmer; Roberto et al to write
proposal
to remove message and replace with complexType.
2002-09-19: Action item wording agreed to.
Roberto stated the goal is to determine what it would
look
like if we use XML Schema constructs instead of message
constructs.
DONE [7] 2002-09-10: Arthur to kick off thread on @element vs. @type,
perhaps by showing how to convert an existing
@element into @type.
DONE [8] 2002-09-10: Arthur to write up direction and rationale to
drop @use=encoded and post to wsdl wg public list.
PENDING 2002-09-10: Gudge to provide summary of using xml schema to
wrap other type systems at an appropriate level
of abstraction.
PENDING 2002-09-11: Sanjiva to describe out/out-in for pub-sub. [I
think this should be pub-sub _without_ out/out-in.]
2002-09019: Form a task force (Joyce, Sandeep, Igor,
Steve T, Sanjiva, Adi, Roberto, Amy) to prepare
presentation
about adding pub/sub as a first class citizen of WSDL
1.2.
Sanjiva will send a note to the list describing a
starting
position and seeking comment.
PENDING 2002-09-11: Jeffrey and Don define TCP binding.
New Actions as of 2002-09-19:
2002-09-19: Sanjiva will write a Java binding
2002-09-19: Sanjiva provide updates on Use Scenarios document to
Architecture Group.
Need to determine whether this activity should be in
the
architecture group or moved outside.
[5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0019.html
[6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2002Jul/0016.html
[7] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0055.html
[8] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0054.html
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4. FTF planning:
Nov F2F:
2002-09-19: No joint meeting time scheduled with the Architecture
group at present. Can schedule if needed. Rooms
available for 3 days of solid meeting.
Meetings will be planned from Monday AM through Wednesday PM.
Jan FTF.
2002-09-19: Sri Lanka or Sydney? About 25 people stated they could
attend in Sydney. 3 people stated they could not travel.
Jonathan will poll working group to ensure that Sydney
will work. Host Art Hague, not member of working group.
Alternatives if Sri Lanka or Sydney do not work out:
Vancouver, BC [Dave Orchard]
Toronto, ON [Arthur Ryman]
New York, NY [Sanjiva Weerawarana]
Plan would be to meet week of January 14 or 21. Need firm
offers by next week (2002-09-19)
Tech plenary March 3-7 in Boston, we could meet 3-4 or 6-7.
2002-09-19: Do we want a meeting in conjunction with Tech Plenary?
General consensus is yes, some concern with only 2 days
of meeting and conflicts with other working groups.
Plan is to go forward with planning WG F2F at Tech Plenary.
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5. Arch harvesting of WSDL [9]. Need reviewers.
2002-09-19: Arch group is attempting to harvest some of our work.
Who can take a look and see if they are taking good stuff
from them.
Jean-Jacques -- document looks reasonable.
Pending: Review next week. Would like input from more
individuals.
[9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2002Jul/0349.html
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6. Requirements [10]
Need to finish up and publish again.
2002-09-19: Table for one week. Need information from Gudge on
Semantic Web requirement.
Action: Review document for 9/26/02 meeting.
[10]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/requirements/ws-desc-reqs.h
tml#binddesc
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7. New Issues
WSDL and INLINE Schema Definitions [11]
2002-09-19: Gudge had indicated new issues to be added.
Enumeration of potential issues:
- Disallow importing of schemas except via
- No predefined types of elements added to an embedded schema
- Schema embedded in WSDL must have target namespace. Cannot
define
names in the undeclared namespace.
Follow-up left to the editors.
[11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0025.html
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8. BindingType proposal from Kevin [12].
Response from Jacek [13].
2002-09-19: Jeffery raised some concerns:
- new user/novice user will find it hard to understand
where information should go. Can be addressed by adding
a new attribute
- data model for binding is inconsistent with other models.
- should we consider this with Sanjiva's proposal?
- can we break this down into small issues that can be
considered
separately?
Jacek -- concerns were summarized well. Reusable binding is
aim.
This idea is probably 2.0 material and not 1.2.
Roberto -- Clarifying question: The use of term binding type
is confusing. Port and port type have a clear relationship.
This proposal doesn't have a clear mapping. Binding & Binding
type. Kevin agrees that a better name would be useful.
Is the group interested in continuing to pursue this action?
Straw Poll says we should continue to pursue.
Continue: 13
Stop: 1
Abstain: 11
Kevin asks that anyone with particular issues or concerns let
him know so he can attempt to address them.
Revisit next week.
[12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Aug/0009.html
[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0043.html
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9. Issue 2: SOAPAction has been deprecated, as of SOAP 1.2 [14].
Jean-Jacques proposal at [15]. Jacek's addendum at [16].
2002-09-19: Jean-Jacques summary: WG wanted something better then
SOAPAction.
Want a more general method in WSDL. Introduce new
element <http:field> to the HTTP binding. Also, introduce an
equivalent <soap:field> element to the SOAP binding.
Jacek -- proposed name change as well as noted that some
transports do not need to have MIME fields, and most MIME
fields will not have parameters. Current proposal leaves
to much room for inconsistencies.
Glen -- this relates to a proposal on properties [24], there
is a general pattern we should consider.
Jonathan -- group needs to review the property stuff in more
detail.
SOAP Action can turn into a property.
Do we need to make a late comment to the XML Protocol group?
ACTION: Glen will look and see status of SOAP Actions. Draft
potential last call comment to XML Protocols Group.
[14] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x2
[15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0050.html
[16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0056.html
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10. Issue 18: Default for transport of <soap:binding> [17]. Jeffrey's
proposal at [18].
2002-09-19: This item was closed at 2002-09-05 teleconference:
Resolution (per 2002-09-05 minutes):
Issue 18 to be closed per [18] to make the transport
attribute
mandatory for the <soap:binding> element.
Issue 28 still open and may be discussed at F2F if time
permits.
[17] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x18
[18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0122.html
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11. Issue 28: transport='uri' [19]
2002-09-19: Defer until after Glen's proposal.
[19] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x28
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12. HTTP Binding Issues (6a, 41)
Jeffrey recommends no change [20].
Sanjiva is mulling this over [21].
2002-09-19: Waiting on Sanjiva -- need to introduce HTTP header
and / or cookie as part of binding. Differ until after
Glen's proposal.
Should this issue be broadened to say support of all
features of the transport. Again, Glen's proposal will
spur this conversation along.
[20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0102.html
[21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0067.html
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13. Issue 25: Interaction between W3C XML Schema and SOAP Data Model
Gudge's explains at [22], Roberto's options at [23].
Waiting for more detail in ACM?
2002-09-19: Waiting for Gudge to provide more detail/wisdom
on abstract component model.
[22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0186.html
[23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0071.html
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14. A slice at a proposal for SOAP features/properties in WSDL [24].
Glen Daniels
2002-09-19: Move up on agenda for next week, key to a lot of the
binding work.
Read proposal for next week.
[24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Sep/0004.html
Respectfully submitted,
Bill Stumbo
Xerox Innovation Group
Solutions & Services Technology Center
wstumbo@crt.xerox.com
Phone: 585.422.0616
Fax: 585.265.8424
Received on Monday, 23 September 2002 13:15:48 UTC