RE: proposed AC018 rewording

hi, Heather and Zulah,

What if I change the "management model" to "conceptual management model"?

This simply says that you need something so all the operations, events and
so on can hang together using this thing called "conceptual management
model".  It does not say "how".

Hao   

-----Original Message-----
From: ECKERT,ZULAH (HP-Cupertino,ex1)
To: 'kreger@us.ibm.com'; Hao He
Cc: ECKERT,ZULAH (HP-Cupertino,ex1); Damodaran, Suresh;
Hao.He@thomson.ocm.au; adiber@att.com; wsgeek2002@yahoo.com;
www-ws-arch@w3.org
Sent: 6/21/02 5:45 AM
Subject: RE: proposed AC018 rewording

I'm with Heather on this.
 
I would like to see us separate the "how" of accomplishing the goals
from the actual goals ad requirements. This lends clarity to the goals
and requirements. I understand that we haven't done this in other
sections of the requirements document, however I support doing this. It
is appropriate to have the discussion of how we want to accomplish
meeting the requirements and the model(s) discussion will enter into
this. 
 
So +1 to Heather's disagreement with 18.1.5 and 18.2.5
 
Zulah
 
-----Original Message-----
From: kreger@us.ibm.com [mailto:kreger@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 9:06 AM
To: Hao He
Cc: ECKERT,ZULAH (HP-Cupertino,ex1); Damodaran, Suresh;
kreger@us.ibm.com; Hao.He@thomson.ocm.au; adiber@att.com;
wsgeek2002@yahoo.com; www-ws-arch@w3.org
Subject: RE: proposed AC018 rewording


Hao,
We tried to keep this at the level of the goals and requirements for
manageability. I think that creating a management model may be part of
ACCOMPLISHING the goals/requirements, but I don't think that its a first
class requirement. Putting a model in the goal begs the question of what
kind of model and how is it expressed, etc., and I think its too
detailed right now. We would be imposing HOW to satisfy the requirement
in the requirement. 

In addition, I"m not sure we can create a standard model for instances.
The instance level stuff should be specific to instances. If we need to
express/save relationships between instances we probably need to define
that at a Web Service Architecture implementation level. I also thing
that lifecycle control is at the architecture implementation level, not
web service instance level.

So, I disagree with 18.1.5 and 18.2.5. 

Heather Kreger
Web Services Lead Architect
STSM, SWG Emerging Technology
kreger@us.ibm.com
919-543-3211 (t/l 441) cell:919-496-9572



Sent by: www-ws-arch-request@w3.org 


To: "'ECKERT,ZULAH (HP-Cupertino,ex1) '" <zulah_eckert@hp.com>,
"''Damodaran, Suresh' '" <Suresh_Damodaran@stercomm.com>, Heather
Kreger/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS, "'Hao.He@thomson.ocm.au '"
<Hao.He@thomson.ocm.au>, "'adiber@att.com '" <adiber@att.com>,
"'wsgeek2002@yahoo.com '" <wsgeek2002@yahoo.com>
cc: "'WSA W3C Public (E-mail) '" <www-ws-arch@w3c.org> 
Subject: RE: proposed AC018 rewording



hi, Zulah,

Good work. It reads very well.  I'd like to add some more. See comments
within:

Hao

----------------------------------------------------------------------
AC018 Enables the management of web services

AC018.1 Ensures that implementations of the Web Services Architecture
are manageable.
AR018.1.1 Define a base set of standard metrics for architectural
components and their interactions accompanied by guidelines for
measurement.
AR018.1.2 Define a base set of standard management operations for Web
Services Architecture implementations. Management operations includes,
but is not limited to, support for configuration control and lifecycle
control.
AR018.1.3 Define a base set of management events to be issued by the Web
Services Architecture implementation.
AR018.1.4 Define a standard methodology for accessing management
capabilities from the Web Services Architecture implementation.
<hh>
AR018.1.5 Define a standard management model for architectural
components, their dependencies and their lifecycles.
</hh>

AC018.2 Ensures that implementations of the Web Service instances are
manageable.
<hh>
AC018.2 Ensures that Web Services instances are manageable.
</hh>
AR018.2.1 Define how a web service should expose web service specific
metrics, configuration, operations, and events.
<hh>
AR018.2.1 Define how a Web Services instance should expose Web Services
specific
metrics, configuration, operations, and events.
</hh>

AR018.2.2 Support the discovery of web service management capabilities.

AR018.2.3 Define a standard methodology for accessing management
capabilities of a Web Services instance through the Web Services
Architecture
implementation.
<hh>
AR018.1.5 Define a standard management model for Web Services instances,
their dependencies and their lifecycles.
</hh>


AC018.3 Ensure that at least the following types of management
applications are supported: Performance Monitoring, Availability,


-----Original Message-----
From: ECKERT,ZULAH (HP-Cupertino,ex1)
To: 'Damodaran, Suresh'; 'kreger@us.ibm.com'; Hao.He@thomson.ocm.au;
adiber@att.com; ECKERT,ZULAH (HP-Cupertino,ex1); wsgeek2002@yahoo.com
Cc: WSA W3C Public (E-mail)
Sent: 6/20/02 5:10 AM
Subject: proposed AC018 rewording


Hi All,

Here is a proposed rewording of AC018 from Heather and Zulah.

Comments?
Zulah

----------------------------------------------------------------------
AC018 Enables the management of web services

AC018.1 Ensures that implementations of the Web Services Architecture
are manageable.
AR018.1.1 Define a base set of standard metrics for architectural
components and their interactions accompanied by guidelines for
measurement.
AR018.1.2 Define a base set of standard management operations for Web
Services Architecture implementations. Management operations includes,
but is not limited to, support for configuration control and lifecycle
control.
AR018.1.3 Define a base set of management events to be issued by the Web
Services Architecture implementation.
AR018.1.4 Define a standard methodology for accessing management
capabilities from the Web Services Architecture implementation.

AC018.2 Ensures that implementations of the Web Service instances are
manageable.
AR018.2.1 Define how a web service should expose web service specific
metrics, configuration, operations, and events.
AR018.2.2 Support the discovery of web service management capabilities.
AR018.2.3 Define a standard methodology for accessing management
capabilities of a Web Service through the Web Services Architecture
implementation.

AC018.3 Ensure that at least the following types of management
applications are supported: Performance Monitoring, Availability,
Configuration, Control, and Service Level Agreements.