- From: Florian Rivoal <florian@rivoal.net>
- Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 09:19:33 +0100
- To: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
- Cc: "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>, "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>
> On Feb 29, 2016, at 00:42, fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net> wrote: > > On 02/26/2016 02:04 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: >> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 8:46 PM, fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net> wrote: >>> On 02/09/2016 08:17 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: >>>> What problem do you have with light-level? Aside from the "should we >>>> also map a11y concerns to this", I think the feature itself is 100% >>>> stable and well-designed. >>> >>> That's exactly my concern. :) >>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2016Feb/0295.html >> >> That's not a problem with light-level in any way. At most, it's a >> question of "should we do this future MQ, or just recommend using >> 'light-level' for that purpose". a11y concerns won't change our >> design of 'light-level' at all - it does exactly what it's supposed >> to. > > I agree that the design of 'light-level' shouldn't change. I don't > expect it to. I do expect that whether it should be masquerading > as an a11y MQ is likely to change based on further thought on those. > > Imho, light-level and contrast and bg/fg preferences are three > different things. light-level handling will often be ONE OF > a) contrast changes > b) bg/fg inversion > c) both a) and b) > and which one of these three options the author takes is IMHO > not something we or the OS should be assuming. E.g. I think it's > perfectly reasonable to have a light-on-dark high contrast design > for dim lighting. Telling UAs that triggering 'light-level: dim' > for low-contrast users is not going to serve them well on my website. It would serve users with dyslexia somewhat. Lower contrast would likely be better, but light-on-dark is likely to be an improvement. While I believe that in most cases this will be an improvement, and only extremely rarely will it actually make things worse, whether or not this is true does vary on a site per site basis. Would you be more comfortable with the a11y paragraph if we called that out, and encouraged UAs that wish to expose this as a preference for a11y reasons to have the ability to switch on a per site basis? > I can live with light-level shipping as-is if we remove the a11y-related > suggestions, if you feel this is critical. I understand that having specialized MQs for a11y, and having authors use them, would lead to better results than using a vague proxy. But until we have these a11y MQs — and even after we do since most authors cannot be expected to tailor their stylesheets for audiences they are barely aware of — I fail to see the harm in calling out the fact that light-level is a half-way decent approximation of these a11y concerns. > However, I would *prefer* if we delayed it to L5 so that we can release > 'light-level', 'preferred-contrast', and 'preferred-fgbg' *together*. > This lets us set up authoring best practices (through spec recommendations > and examples, and hopefully any tutorials based on them) to encourage > anyone handling light-level to also opt in for the relevant a11y queries. We can (and should) still write these best practices when we do L5, but the fact that light-level works out (even if only approximatively) without any best practice guidelines is a big part of the appeal. - Florian
Received on Monday, 29 February 2016 08:20:01 UTC