W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > February 2015

Re: [css-ruby] Tone mark of bopomofo in ruby

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 13:45:42 +0000
Message-ID: <54D61706.1080600@w3.org>
To: 董福興 <bobbytung@wanderer.tw>, Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gmail.com>, Xidorn Quan <quanxunzhen@gmail.com>
CC: public-i18n-cjk@w3.org, W3C Style <www-style@w3.org>
On 05/02/2015 17:08, Richard Ishida wrote:
> On 05/02/2015 11:32, Bobby Tung wrote:
>>> Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gmail.com> 於 2015年2月5日 上午8:23 寫道:
>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:38 AM, Bobby Tung <bobbytung@wanderer.tw>
>>> wrote:
>>>> But Chinese version Word on Windows made Bopomofo layout well [1],
>>>> was generally used in Mandarin education in Taiwan.
>>>> [1]:
>>>> http://6.blog.xuite.net/6/0/a/1/14497289/blog_1412011/txt/37017546/2.jpg
>>> Allow me to confirm, Word does not re-order the light tone marks but
>>> it's author who should cut it and move?
>> Koji, I tried to automatically add Bopomofo by Word 2002 and generated
>> a html file [1]
>> It will put the light tone mark before Bopomofo characters as :
>> <ruby>了<rp>(</rp><rt>˙ㄌㄜ</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby>
>> So author do nothing to reorder.
>> [1]:
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/03eygzr616ae8do/word2002_generate_bopomofo.htm?dl=0
> Interesting. And how does Word handle non-ruby bopomofo?  Does it put
> the light tone before?  Does it move position of other tones?


I played around with Microsoft Word and updated

with the following text (plus 3 pictures)

It's also interesting to see how Microsoft Word handles this. The screen 
snap below shows the the dialog box for attaching bopomofo annotations 
to the ideographic characters to the left. Note that we have changed the 
default annotation (ㄌㄧㄠˇ) given for the second character to ㄌㄜ˙, 
typing the light tone at the end.

inputting bopomofo annotations in Word
Inputting bopomofo annotations in Microsoft Word, with the light tone at 
the end of the syllable.

In the next figure you see the result on the left, and we have re-opened 
the phonetic guide dialog box. Both on the page and in the dialog box 
the light tone now precedes the bopomofo letters for that syllable.

resulting bopomofo annotations in Word
The bopomofo annotations in Microsoft Word put the light tone at the 
start of the syllable.

Word has clearly transposed the position of the characters during the 
phonetic input. If you copy and paste the content into a text file, the 
light tone remains at the start of the syllable. If you export the page 
to HTML or toggle the field codes, the light tone also appears at the 
start of the syllable.

text copied and pasted from Word
Text from the above Word document pasted into a plain text file.

I also added the following to

Coming back to tones 2–4, an alternative approach to achieve correct 
positioning would be to rely on rules implemented in the browser to 
offset the position. The advantage of such an approach would be that it 
is feasible to make the tones look right for existing fonts, which don't 
have OpenType rules for tone mark positioning. If you look at the figure 
above, I suspect that Microsoft Word does the same thing, if you set the 
language of the content to Chinese, since tones are repositioned for all 
fonts I tried.

On the other hand, bopomofo fonts that can handle phonetic annotations 
would presumably be useful for simple strings of bopomofo, too.
plus a few other edits.

I also checked out the CJK version of InDesign.  It appears to not do 
any reordering of the light tone.

Received on Saturday, 7 February 2015 13:45:56 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 25 March 2022 10:08:51 UTC