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Re: [css-ruby] ruby-position on 2 line subtitles/captions

From: Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 01:01:22 +0900
Message-ID: <CAN9ydbX7-=WAAtqOKwWQ+=kSX63D8fQ9mSWH8bWZAJmrZAv9pg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com>
Cc: Xidorn Quan <quanxunzhen@gmail.com>, W3C Style <www-style@w3.org>
So TTML doesn't use UAs to render? JLREQ clearly states that its
coverage is limited to regular books such as novels, so I'm not
surprised it's not in there, but no motivations/use cases in Web nor
UA engines concerns me a bit to define it.

Maybe we should create a wiki page for CSS Ruby Level 2 and put it
there, unless Xidorn or any implementers wish to implement. Does that
work?

/koji

On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 7:51 AM, Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> As I see it in almost every movie I watch, and in every Karaoke too,
>> I've been wondering why there were no requests so far.
>>
>> Naming wise, 'outside' looks a good candidate to me. Other candidates
>> we tried for the text-align property was 'first-last' or 'first last'.
>> It was removed for other reasons but there were a few concerns on the
>> naming during the review, so they might not be good candidates.
>>
>> Are you just asking naming ideas that fits well to CSS,
>
>
> If someone has a better name than 'outside', I'm sure we could use it with
> TTML.
>
>>
>> or also asking
>> as a possible addition of this value to CSS Ruby?
>
>
> Since this is a real requirement that isn't discussed by JLREQ and isn't
> addressed by the current css-ruby draft, it seems natural that such a value
> should be added. It may also help when TTML is translated to HTML/CSS for
> rendering.
>
>>
>>
>> /koji
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Xidorn Quan <quanxunzhen@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 2:05 AM, Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Recent work on supporting deployed Japanese Subtitling/Captions in
>> >>> TTML
>> >>> indicates a requirement to support ruby positioning on 2 line
>> >>> subtitles/captions where the first line uses right/above (before) and
>> >>> the
>> >>> second line uses left/below (after). We have addressed this in TTML by
>> >>> introducing an 'outside' keyword, which is interpreted as 'before' for
>> >>> lines
>> >>> 1 through N-1 and 'after' for the Nth (last) line.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I guess it would make more sense to combine ::first-line with
>> >> ruby-position than to define a new value. It would have different
>> >> behavior
>> >> from what you defined here when there are more than two lines, but I
>> >> wonder
>> >> if either way gives an ideal result in that case.
>> >
>> >
>> > TTML doesn't have selectors, so that option isn't available there. Even
>> > if
>> > it were available, it doesn't seem quite proper to distribute the
>> > semantics
>> > of positioning in that fashion, i.e., to rely upon first line overrides.
>> > But, yes, that remains an option with CSS.
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> - Xidorn
Received on Tuesday, 16 December 2014 16:01:49 UTC

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