Re: [css3-writing-modes] Examples of normal, unscaled glyphs work better than width-variant glyphs for text-combine-horizontal

Koji Ishii wrote:

>> I don't think that was ever in question. I thought the debate was
>> about resolving on the proper *default* behavior. If with-variant
>> glyphs work well for the main use-case then it seems an appropriate
>> default.
>> (Defaults, by definition, are not required to work well in all
>> cases). Experts at both Adobe and Microsoft have told me that a)
>> 2-3 digits is the main TCY use-case and b) width-variant glyphs, if
>> any, should be used for this scenario. So unless we disagree on the
>> feature's main use-case I'm not sure what prevents a resolution of
>> John's proposal?
> I agree that we should work on main use-case and that's what I'm
> talking about.
> I agree with a), but with b) only under condition where glyphs are
> not narrow enough. Can you check with the experts if they prefer
> normal glyphs v.s. width-variant glyphs if the normal glyphs are
> narrow enough?
> I guess you might have asked preference between width-variants v.s.
> scaled, and I agree width-variants should win in the case. If you
> ask normal v.s. width-variants, I suspect all of them would prefer
> normal.
> And two digits with narrow enough glyphs is the most common case I
> believe.

Koji, what fonts are you looking at?  The majority of common Japanese
platform and publishing fonts ship with fixed-width digits (*not*
proportional!) and the default glyphs are typically wider than 0.5em.
I did some quick measurements for common Windows, OSX and publishing
fonts.  Below are the width of digits in em units:

  OSX fonts:
  Hiragino Mincho ProN 0.59
  Hiragino Kaku Gothic ProN 0.66
  Hiragino Maru Gothic ProN 0.65
  Hiragino Sans GB 0.66
  LiHei Pro 0.65 (Chinese)
  Windows fonts:
  Meiryo 0.62
  Meiryo UI 0.62
  MS Gothic 0.50
  MS PGothic 0.50
  MS Mincho 0.50
  MS PMincho 0.50
  Adobe fonts:
  Kozuka Gothic Pr6N 0.55
  Kozuka Mincho Pr6N 0.61
  Ryo Text PlusN 0.61
  Ryo Gothic PlusN 0.55
  Heisei Kaku Gothic Std 0.56
  Heisei Maru Gothic Std
  0: 0.69
  1: 0.58
  2: 0.69
  3: 0.69
  4: 0.69
  5: 0.69
  6: 0.69
  7: 0.63
  8: 0.69
  9: 0.69

Only the last font in the list had variable-width digit glyphs and
those are all wider than 0.5em.

So on average for these fonts, the width of two-digit pairs will be
roughly 1.2em and scaling will occur.

Please let me know what fonts you're using and I'll measure those also.



Received on Tuesday, 16 July 2013 14:03:51 UTC