- From: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
- Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 01:52:10 -0700
- To: www-style@w3.org
Summary:
- Discussed fantasai's page counters proposal
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Apr/0227.html
- Discussed ISSUE-28 (keyword to suppress center image in 'border-image')
http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/issues/28
- RESOLVED: Accept dbaron's proposal for CSS2.1 Issue 112
http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-112
- RESOLVED: Add && to list of value syntax operators in CSS2.1 (issue 113)
http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-112
====== Full minutes below ======
Attendees:
César Acebal
Bert Bos
David Baron
fantasai Etemad
Sylvain Galineau
Daniel Glazman (via IRC)
Melinda Grant
Håkon Wium Lie
Peter Linss
Anne van Kesteren
Emily Walters
Steve Zilles
<RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/15-css-irc
Scribe: Sylvain
Page Counters
-------------
<sylvaing> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Apr/0227.html
Håkon: this sounds complicated to me
fantasai: agreed
fantasai: defining interactions between counters does complicate things
<glazou> sorry, I'm totally unable to call, my phone and SIP are both dead
at this time
melinda: if we don't define counter interactions, we can't handle certain
scenarios....
melinda: there were issues with using section numbers in document headers
fantasai: no, that was covered already
fantasai: use cases that were not working without counter interactions:
footnote counter that resets on every page but incremented by
elements in the document
<Zakim> + +95089aacc
fantasai: also chapter-level counters that increase with every page in
the chapter but reset at the next chapter (?)
Håkon: agree with the footnote scenario, that is important. not sure
whether it needs to be so complex
dbaron: I'm surprised it's so simple, given how complicated some of the
counters stuff is :)
plinss: aside from general complexity, are there specific issues to be
addressed ?
* glazou finally....
Håkon: proposal: for any named counter, only allow interaction for the
oldest one
fantasai: counter name hiding is not the complex issue but the nesting
of elements
dbaron: I haven't looked at the proposal yet.
<fantasai> and multiple break points
<fantasai> at the same page break
melinda: we should take a week to think about this further.
fantasai: this proposal is actually the second iteration (after melinda
shot down the first one)
plinss: can we elaborate on how the proposal evolved to its current stage ?
fantasai describes the proposal's rules
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Apr/0227.html
<dbaron> It's worth being careful that the multiple break point rule
doesn't kick in when an element crosses three pages.
fantasai: first rule deals with the general simple case; second rule with
multiple break points
fantasai: I would really like to hear from Michael Day, Antenna House,
and David Baron on this proposal
melinda: we have implementations that do what we want, the spec should
match them
fantasai: I would postpone this discussion until we hear back from AH
and Prince
Håkon: sounds good
Håkon will ping Antenna House and Prince on the issue
plinss: we can put this back on next week's agenda or the week after
Borders & Backgrounds
---------------------
<plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Apr/0228.html
fantasai: i'm waiting for feedback on most of these open issues
* dbaron wonders what issue 28 is
fantasai: we can probably close issue 28 as no change
fantasai: people seem to like color fallback so we may keep the feature
but change the syntax
fantasai: only two conclusions I have at this point
Håkon: I'd like to find a way to clip the center image
fantasai: none of the authors that have given feedback so far think this
is worth making border-image more complex
Håkon: but i'm an author too :)
* glazou_ does not think howcome is the average web author :-)
Håkon: this is so easy to do now; without it you need to do Photoshop work
Håkon to look at the proposal again...
Bert: I prefer simplicity so I would not mind not adding the feature
Håkon: it is a slight increase in complexity that saves a frequent work item
Håkon: in fact, why not specify when you want to keep the center image
i.e. the default should be to clip it
Håkon: the default today is that unless you use a manual tool you're not
really getting a border anymore
Bert: but how do you define the slicing of that image into 9 proper
pieces without some editing work
fantasai suggests a straw poll
plinss: if you force the author to use transparency, you force them to
choose a particular format
plinss: another use case, the author want the same image to be used in
two places, one of which includes the center but not the other
Håkon: this is not about graphical feature creep but the default behavior
of this property
+SteveZ
plinss: i'm not hearing consensus yet
Håkon: we'll keep it as an issue
Column/page break discussion postponed so alexmog can participate.
CSS 2.1
-------
<fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1
fantasai: several action items open on Saloni, can we get those reassigned?
plinss: someone from msft ?
* sylvaing is alone in the room :)
ACTION: sylvain and arron to work on Saloni's 2.1 issues
<fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-112
<plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Apr/0099.html
fantasai: I'd like to adopt dbaron's proposal; it's straightforward
<dbaron> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/tables.html#column-alignment
Bert: what is the exact issue ?
dbaron: some people think this section means text-align applies to columns
dbaron: the text does not specify which elements the property applies to
and the title implies that it may apply to table columns
fantasai: dbaron's proposal is to clearly disambiguate this
Bert: change seems ok. but is not absolutely necessary
plinss, fantasai: editorial change. no conflict with implementations.
plinss: objections ?
szilles: no objection to the change, but not sure it fixes the problem
plinss: we're not changing any behavior just clarifying interpretation
RESOLVED: dbaron's proposal accepted (Issue-112)
<fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-113
fantasai: we discussed this at the F2F
<fantasai> I requested an && syntax operator to the values and units
module and it was suggested that we instead add it to 2.1
Håkon does not like having this in CSS3 values and units; should it
go into 2.1 syntax ?
plinss: I have no issues with putting this in 2.1
Bert: it doesn't hurt 2.1 since it's not used
Bert: ...by 2.1
melinda: would we be able to qualify it ?
fantasai: editorial change, does not define a feature
Håkon: agree
szilles: if this is an editorial change, I suggest a note clarifying
that this notation is specified for completeness but unused
szilles: it would helpful to have examples to describe it
RESOLVED: add && to list of value syntax operators
(http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-113)
szilles can do without the note but would like a clear usage example
discussion of 2.1 issues that need action items
plinss: we should ask people to process their issues; assign action
items to unassigned issues next week
Received on Thursday, 14 May 2009 08:52:52 UTC