Re: Obsolescence notices on old specifications, again

hi Jeffe,

Ian has stated in response [1]:

"I follow it, like everyone else, exactly to the extent that I think it
requires us to do the right thing for the Web. When the process requires
us to do something bad for the Web, I ignore it."

I say fair play to him and as long as any other participant in the process
can opt out of the process whenever he/she thinks it's "bad for the Web,"
and the W3C is OK with that, then we have a level playing field for all
particpants.

but his stament does appear to contradict your statement:

"he agrees to follow the W3C Process"

For people such as myself who have invested a lot of time and energy
working within, what is at times a tortuous process, in effecting change to
the HTML5 specification, for what I believe to be the 'right thing for the
Web'. I don't want to see that work undermined and undone by someone who is
in a powerful position, because he or she thinks they own rights on what is
the 'right thing for the Web'.


[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Jan/0032.html


best regards

Stevef

On 25 January 2012 23:58, Jeff Jaffe <jeff@w3.org> wrote:

>  On 1/25/2012 4:53 PM, Steve Faulkner wrote:
>
> Hi Philippe,
>
>  Ian Hickson wrote: [1]
>
>  On Wed, 25 Jan 2012, Philippe Le Hegaret wrote:
> >
> > as a reminder, as editor of several documents for the Web Applications
> > and HTML Working Group, you agreed to follow the W3C Process, as well as
> > following the HTML Decision Policy of the HTML Working Group. If this is
> > no longer the case, you should let the Chairs of those Groups aware of
> > this,
>
> The chairs of both groups, as well as yourself, and Jeff, are fully aware
> of this already.
>
>
> Let me say what I am fully aware of:
>
> 1. Ian has fundamental disagreements with the way that the W3C process
> works.  He has been very clear about that.
>
> 2. Nonetheless, for situations that he is wearing his hat as Editor within
> a W3C Working Group, he agrees to follow the W3C Process.  Part of the
> reason is a mutual desire to have HTML work proceed both in W3C (under its
> process) and WHATWG (under its process), and to keep HTML 5 as aligned as
> possible with HTML LS.
>
> 3. There is already a consensus that some of the points that he has made
> about standardization processes are good points - although not for the
> goals of W3C Working Groups.  Many of these points have been adopted for
> W3C Community Groups which has different objectives.
>
> 4. On the whole, the Chairs have reported to me that they are satisfied
> that Ian has fulfilled the commitments (point 2 above) to follow the W3C
> Process.  There have been exceptions which (to date) we have successfully
> worked through.
>
> 5. Ian is so much "bought in" to W3C, that on one occasion where he
> thought the Chairs had made a mistake, he actually escalated the Chairs'
> decision to the W3C CEO.  (nb., after a brief discussion between the CEO,
> Chairs, and Editor - all agreed that the Chairs and Editor would resolve
> the issue and the CEO did not enter the HTML 5 Decision Process.)
>
>
>
>  --
> Ian Hickson
>
>
>  So, a working group member who plays a pivotal role does not agree
> to follow the W3C Process, as well as follow the HTML Decision Policy of
> the HTML Working Group.
>
>
> Hence Ian has been following the W3C Process.
>
>
>
>
>  Why should any of us?
>
>  regards
> Stevef
>
>
>
> On 25 January 2012 11:39, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Phillippe,
>>
>>
>> Ian Hickson wrote [1]:
>>
>> "Nobody really follows the W3C process. Some claim to, others (such as
>> myself) do not. Being on a W3C list certainly doesn't imply anything
>> about
>> one's actions with respect to the hallowed Process."
>>
>>
>> I have acted under the assumption that  participation in working groups
>> is dependent on my agreeing to, and attempting in good faith, to abide by
>> W3C process, it appears that I and others have been mislead.
>>
>>
>> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Jan/0025.html
>>
>>
>> --
>> with regards
>>
>> Steve Faulkner
>> Technical Director - TPG
>>
>> www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com |
>> www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner
>> HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
>> dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
>> Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>  --
> with regards
>
> Steve Faulkner
> Technical Director - TPG
>
> www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com |
> www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner
> HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
> dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
> Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
>
>
>
>


-- 
with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG

www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com |
www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner
HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives -
dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html