- From: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>
- Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:15:59 -0700
- To: "'Joanmarie Diggs'" <jdiggs@igalia.com>, <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Hi,
Please let me know where to file the IE bug regarding Radio role states, and I'll be happy to do so.
Thanks,
Bryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Joanmarie Diggs [mailto:jdiggs@igalia.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 1:05 PM
To: wai-xtech@w3.org
Subject: [aapi] Minutes: UAI TF Meeting Tue 8 July 2014
Link: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/08-aapi-minutes.html
Plain text follows:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
08 Jul 2014
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2014/07/08-aapi-irc
Attendees
Present
+1.416.848.aaaa, Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia_Shelly,
David_Bolter, Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer,
Rich_Schwerdtfeger, janina_
Regrets
Chair
Joseph_Scheuhammer
Scribe
Joanmarie_Diggs
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]ACTION-1115: (All) Review new text: MUST NOT expose
custom role in MSAA.
2. [5]ACTION-980: (David) Define mappings for managed
aria related states.
3. [6]ACTION-1450 (Joseph): Provide link to UIA Express
in section 3 of caam.
4. [7]ACTION-1115: (All) Review new text: MUST NOT expose
custom role in MSAA.
5. [8]ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for
aria-describedby in 5.5.1 table where referenced
accessible is not in the a11y tree.
6. [9]ACTION-1372: (Cynthia) Create test case for
rowgroup role.
7. [10]Action 967
8. [11]Action 1280
9. [12]Other burning issues?
10. [13]Alex will take over for Pete Brunet as IA2
maintainer.
11. [14]Why is there no checked state for radios in IE?
12. [15]Tab index value
* [16]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 08 July 2014
<clown> agenda: this
<davidb> i'll be a bit late, someone is squatting in my phone
rom
<davidb> room
<scribe> scribe: Joanmarie_Diggs
ACTION-1115: (All) Review new text: MUST NOT expose custom role in MSAA.
<clown> action-1115?
<trackbot> action-1115 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Find reference
in MSAA spec that says you can't put anything in the role
property except roles that are defined by the MSAA spec -- due
2014-07-08 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[17]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1115
[17] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1115
JS: I had to make a change to the document so I marked the
action pending review.
<clown>
[18]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
mentation.html#mapping_role
[18]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_role
JS: The above URL gets you close.
... In section 5.4, look for item 5
... The MSAA bullet says "not supported". I added
... a link to the document and this statement
<clown> User agents MUST NOT expose a custom role in MSAA's
accRole property.
JS: David, that is the law from Microsoft
DB: I will talk this over with Alex
JS: So we'll leave this pending review?
... It seems that the documentation is pretty clear.
RS: That has been violated for decades.
DB: I've been told by some of the Windows AT vendors that if we
take this out, it won't break things.
... So maybe IA2 has made this doable.
JS: What this is about is if you have a WAI ARIA role string
that doesn't match the API, and you have a way to expose it,
you should do so. But MSAA doesn't have such a way.
DB: I'd prefer the MUST NOT not be there.
JS: Cynthia has stated that it is not a SHOULD, but I'd like
her opinion.
DB: I have a patch that removes it. But I want to check with
Alex first.
ACTION-980: (David) Define mappings for managed aria related states.
<clown> action-980?
<trackbot> action-980 -- David Bolter to Define mappings for
managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset,
arla-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5
bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2014-07-01 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[19]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
[19] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
DB: I'm aware of this item.
... I have not yet had the opportunity to do it and would like
a little more time.
JS: This is associated with ARIA 1.1, but I don't see any issue
associated with it.
ACTION-1450 (Joseph): Provide link to UIA Express in section 3 of caam.
<clown> action-1450?
<trackbot> action-1450 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide link to
uia express for accessibility api reference in section 3 of
caam -- due 2014-07-08 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[20]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1450
[20] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1450
JS: Related URLs are
<clown>
[21]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
mentation.html#intro_aapi
[21]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#intro_aapi
JS: The link to UIA Express has been added in section 1.1
Accessibility APIs
<clown>
[22]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
mentation.html#glossary
[22]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#glossary
JS: I should contact the people who maintain the bibliographic
references and ask them to add this one.
... The first term in the glossary is the Accessibility APIs.
So I added a reference there too.
<clown>
[23]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
mentation.html#glossary
[23]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#glossary
<clown>
[24]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
mentation.html#intro_aapi
[24]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#intro_aapi
CS: That looks fine.
JS: We can close this action.
ACTION-1115: (All) Review new text: MUST NOT expose custom role in MSAA.
<clown>
[25]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
mentation.html#mapping_role
[25]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_role
JS: (Reviews item 1)
RS: I suspect the reason is the custom roles don't get mapped
over correctly, right?
CS: This has never been supported.
DB: Alex and I would prefer SHOULD NOT rather than MUST NOT.
... And the reality is that only Firefox is doing this, right?
JS: What does Chrome do on Windows?
DB: I'm not sure, though they tend to be consistent with what
Firefox does.
JS: Has this hack ever broken anything?
DB: I don't believe so.
CS: I need to run this by some people. My preference is MUST
NOT.
DB: If there is a technical reason, then we should keep the
MUST NOT.
CS: MSAA is deprecated.
JS: I will leave this open.
CS: You can give me an action to run the MUST NOT vs SHOULD NOT
by people.
<clown> ACTION: Cynthia to check with IE team whether statement
re: ACTION-1115, "User agents MUST NOT expose a custom role in
MSAA's accRole property." can be a SHOULD NOT. [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2014/07/08-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1478 - Check with ie team whether
statement re: action-1115, "user agents must not expose a
custom role in msaa's accrole property." can be a should not.
[on Cynthia Shelly - due 2014-07-15].
<clown> action-1478?
<trackbot> action-1478 -- Cynthia Shelly to Check with ie team
whether statement re: action-1115, "user agents must not expose
a custom role in msaa's accrole property." can be a should not.
-- due 2014-07-15 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[27]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1478
[27] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1478
Zakim take up item 3
ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for aria-describedby in 5.5.1 table where referenced accessible is not in the a11y tree.
<clown> action-1104?
<trackbot> action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the
accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in
section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the
accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies --
due 2014-06-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[28]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104
[28] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104
CS: I will spend some time on actions in the next couple of
weeks.
RS: Thank you for updating the focus section so that it's more
generic.
JS: I am making that whole section more generic.
RS: This is good.
ACTION-1372: (Cynthia) Create test case for rowgroup role.
<clown> action-1372?
<trackbot> action-1372 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case,
if there is none, to test the rowgroup role -- due 2014-07-01
-- OPEN
<trackbot>
[29]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1372
[29] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1372
<clown> issue-635?
<trackbot> issue-635 -- Determine if uaig mappings for rowgroup
are correct -- open
<trackbot> [30]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/635
[30] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/635
JS: This is related to issue-635
... We needed a test case specifically for rowgroup so we can
customize the mappings and be sure they are right.
CS: I will work on this soon.
<clown> [31]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23
[31] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23
Action 967
<clown> action-967?
<trackbot> action-967 -- Janina Sajka to work with Rich to work
with DAISY establish a structural navigation model for ARIA
landmarks related to comment 362 -- due 2014-01-08 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[32]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/967
[32] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/967
<clown>
[33]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/comments/details?comment_id
=362
[33] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/comments/details?comment_id=362
Janina: I think this will be covered by the new roles which
will be discussed by the epub group.
RS: All the roles related to ebooks will be delivered through
the ARIA role attribute.
JS: So this issue can be closed as being taken up by epub.
Janina: They really want support in the HTML validator.
RS: We have a fallback mechanism in the role attributes, so if
it's not something the browser knows about it's not terrible.
Janina: But I think they still want the validator to pass and
flag these roles.
... And I don't think this is automatic.
(Group agrees to close this)
Action 1280
<clown> action-1280?
<trackbot> action-1280 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Take a first
pass at pulling aria core implementation out of aria UAIG --
due 2013-10-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[34]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1280
[34] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1280
RS: We already have a first draft.
JS: And I'm already working on the keyboard nav and focus
section.
Janina: IndieUI-ify it.
JS: It's now closed.
RS: I'm writing the SVG2 mapping spec.
JS: All the table entries now have IDs. But I don't think it
happened in time for the heartbeat.
<clown> [35]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23
[35] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23
Other burning issues?
<clown> action-1258?
<trackbot> action-1258 -- Jon Gunderson to Write some uaig test
cases and expected results starting with test case 102 and
working backward -- due 2013-09-16 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[36]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1258
[36] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1258
RS: Can we just close action 1258?
JS: I think Jon did this with his big ramp up to running the
test cases.
... Closed.
<clown> action-980?
<trackbot> action-980 -- David Bolter to Define mappings for
managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset,
arla-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5
bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2014-07-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[37]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
[37] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
RS: We don't have action-980 done yet?
DB: I think you are waiting on me for that one?
JS: We just changed the due date.
<clown> action-1279?
<trackbot> action-1279 -- Shane McCarron to Talk to mobile
manufacturers about how to include their apis -- due 2013-10-25
-- OPEN
<trackbot>
[38]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1279
[38] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1279
RS: Action 1279 is one we should really get started on.
... We don't have any mobile API mappings.
... This is really important.
... I don't know if Shane is the right guy to have this.
JS: It looks like this used to be associated with the spec, but
James Craig seems to have moved it.
RS: I think the person you might want to reach out to first is
James Craig when he gets back from vacation.
CS: And google?
RS: Dominic would know the right person.
CS: And BlackBerry?
RS: Do you do anything different for mobile?
CS: I would need to check.
Janina: It's probably smart to list it regardless.
RS: Larry should be pretty familiar with it since he worked on
narrator for mobile.
action-1320
<trackbot> action-1320 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Consider
mapping the "offscreen" api properties in the situation of
aria-hidden="false" on non-rendered elements. -- due 2014-12-23
-- OPEN
<trackbot>
[39]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1320
[39] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1320
<clown> action-1320?
<trackbot> action-1320 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Consider
mapping the "offscreen" api properties in the situation of
aria-hidden="false" on non-rendered elements. -- due 2014-12-23
-- OPEN
<trackbot>
[40]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1320
[40] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1320
DB: This is pretty complex.
JS: My impression from bugzilla discussions at Mozilla is that
they might not change their minds.
... I offered that whatever you do for offscreen could also be
used for aria-hidden=false
... But Alex didn't seem to want to do this.
Alex will take over for Pete Brunet as IA2 maintainer.
DB: And Alex would like more members.
CS: Does this mean IA2 is in active development again?
Group: Yes!
(Group discusses the desire to have the Accessibility APIs
converge)
RS: ARIA 2 might be the right time to do this.
<clown>
[41]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/000
7.html
[41] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0007.html
Why is there no checked state for radios in IE?
BG: Describes what is in
[42]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/000
7.html
[42] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0007.html
CS: That sounds like a bug.
BG: I'll file it if you tell me where to do so.
<clown>
[43]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
mentation.html#keyboard-focus_tabindex
[43]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#keyboard-focus_tabindex
Tab index value
<cyns> IE bugs go here [44]http://connect.microsoft.com/ie
[44] http://connect.microsoft.com/ie
RS: Tab index is read/write in HTML5.
... I need to talk to Steve about this.
JS: If you have rotating tabs, you might want to set the value
to -1.
<clown> jQuery.attr ('tabindex', −1)
who as aaaa?
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Cynthia to check with IE team whether statement
re: ACTION-1115, "User agents MUST NOT expose a custom role in
MSAA's accRole property." can be a SHOULD NOT. [recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2014/07/08-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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$Date: 2014-07-08 20:02:29 $
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Friday, 11 July 2014 01:16:44 UTC