[aapi] Minutes: UAI TF Meeting Tue 8 July 2014

Link: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/08-aapi-minutes.html

Plain text follows:
   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

           Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
                              08 Jul 2014

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/07/08-aapi-irc

Attendees

   Present
          +1.416.848.aaaa, Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia_Shelly,
          David_Bolter, Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer,
          Rich_Schwerdtfeger, janina_

   Regrets
   Chair
          Joseph_Scheuhammer

   Scribe
          Joanmarie_Diggs

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]ACTION-1115: (All) Review new text: MUST NOT expose
            custom role in MSAA.
         2. [5]ACTION-980: (David) Define mappings for managed
            aria related states.
         3. [6]ACTION-1450 (Joseph): Provide link to UIA Express
            in section 3 of caam.
         4. [7]ACTION-1115: (All) Review new text: MUST NOT expose
            custom role in MSAA.
         5. [8]ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for
            aria-describedby in 5.5.1 table where referenced
            accessible is not in the a11y tree.
         6. [9]ACTION-1372: (Cynthia) Create test case for
            rowgroup role.
         7. [10]Action 967
         8. [11]Action 1280
         9. [12]Other burning issues?
        10. [13]Alex will take over for Pete Brunet as IA2
            maintainer.
        11. [14]Why is there no checked state for radios in IE?
        12. [15]Tab index value
     * [16]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 08 July 2014

   <clown> agenda: this

   <davidb> i'll be a bit late, someone is squatting in my phone
   rom

   <davidb> room

   <scribe> scribe: Joanmarie_Diggs

ACTION-1115: (All) Review new text: MUST NOT expose custom role in
MSAA.

   <clown> action-1115?

   <trackbot> action-1115 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Find reference
   in MSAA spec that says you can't put anything in the role
   property except roles that are defined by the MSAA spec -- due
   2014-07-08 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [17]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1115

     [17] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1115

   JS: I had to make a change to the document so I marked the
   action pending review.

   <clown>
   [18]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
   mentation.html#mapping_role

     [18]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_role

   JS: The above URL gets you close.
   ... In section 5.4, look for item 5
   ... The MSAA bullet says "not supported". I added
   ... a link to the document and this statement

   <clown> User agents MUST NOT expose a custom role in MSAA's
   accRole property.

   JS: David, that is the law from Microsoft

   DB: I will talk this over with Alex

   JS: So we'll leave this pending review?
   ... It seems that the documentation is pretty clear.

   RS: That has been violated for decades.

   DB: I've been told by some of the Windows AT vendors that if we
   take this out, it won't break things.
   ... So maybe IA2 has made this doable.

   JS: What this is about is if you have a WAI ARIA role string
   that doesn't match the API, and you have a way to expose it,
   you should do so. But MSAA doesn't have such a way.

   DB: I'd prefer the MUST NOT not be there.

   JS: Cynthia has stated that it is not a SHOULD, but I'd like
   her opinion.

   DB: I have a patch that removes it. But I want to check with
   Alex first.

ACTION-980: (David) Define mappings for managed aria related states.

   <clown> action-980?

   <trackbot> action-980 -- David Bolter to Define mappings for
   managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset,
   arla-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5
   bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2014-07-01 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [19]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980

     [19] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980

   DB: I'm aware of this item.
   ... I have not yet had the opportunity to do it and would like
   a little more time.

   JS: This is associated with ARIA 1.1, but I don't see any issue
   associated with it.

ACTION-1450 (Joseph): Provide link to UIA Express in section 3 of
caam.

   <clown> action-1450?

   <trackbot> action-1450 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide link to
   uia express for accessibility api reference in section 3 of
   caam -- due 2014-07-08 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [20]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1450

     [20] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1450

   JS: Related URLs are

   <clown>
   [21]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
   mentation.html#intro_aapi

     [21]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#intro_aapi

   JS: The link to UIA Express has been added in section 1.1
   Accessibility APIs

   <clown>
   [22]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
   mentation.html#glossary

     [22]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#glossary

   JS: I should contact the people who maintain the bibliographic
   references and ask them to add this one.
   ... The first term in the glossary is the Accessibility APIs.
   So I added a reference there too.

   <clown>
   [23]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
   mentation.html#glossary

     [23]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#glossary

   <clown>
   [24]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
   mentation.html#intro_aapi

     [24]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#intro_aapi

   CS: That looks fine.

   JS: We can close this action.

ACTION-1115: (All) Review new text: MUST NOT expose custom role in
MSAA.

   <clown>
   [25]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
   mentation.html#mapping_role

     [25]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_role

   JS: (Reviews item 1)

   RS: I suspect the reason is the custom roles don't get mapped
   over correctly, right?

   CS: This has never been supported.

   DB: Alex and I would prefer SHOULD NOT rather than MUST NOT.
   ... And the reality is that only Firefox is doing this, right?

   JS: What does Chrome do on Windows?

   DB: I'm not sure, though they tend to be consistent with what
   Firefox does.

   JS: Has this hack ever broken anything?

   DB: I don't believe so.

   CS: I need to run this by some people. My preference is MUST
   NOT.

   DB: If there is a technical reason, then we should keep the
   MUST NOT.

   CS: MSAA is deprecated.

   JS: I will leave this open.

   CS: You can give me an action to run the MUST NOT vs SHOULD NOT
   by people.

   <clown> ACTION: Cynthia to check with IE team whether statement
   re: ACTION-1115, "User agents MUST NOT expose a custom role in
   MSAA's accRole property." can be a SHOULD NOT. [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2014/07/08-aapi-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-1478 - Check with ie team whether
   statement re: action-1115, "user agents must not expose a
   custom role in msaa's accrole property." can be a should not.
   [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2014-07-15].

   <clown> action-1478?

   <trackbot> action-1478 -- Cynthia Shelly to Check with ie team
   whether statement re: action-1115, "user agents must not expose
   a custom role in msaa's accrole property." can be a should not.
   -- due 2014-07-15 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [27]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1478

     [27] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1478

   Zakim take up item 3

ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for aria-describedby in 5.5.1
table where referenced accessible is not in the a11y tree.

   <clown> action-1104?

   <trackbot> action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the
   accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in
   section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the
   accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies --
   due 2014-06-30 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [28]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104

     [28] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104

   CS: I will spend some time on actions in the next couple of
   weeks.

   RS: Thank you for updating the focus section so that it's more
   generic.

   JS: I am making that whole section more generic.

   RS: This is good.

ACTION-1372: (Cynthia) Create test case for rowgroup role.

   <clown> action-1372?

   <trackbot> action-1372 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case,
   if there is none, to test the rowgroup role -- due 2014-07-01
   -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [29]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1372

     [29] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1372

   <clown> issue-635?

   <trackbot> issue-635 -- Determine if uaig mappings for rowgroup
   are correct -- open

   <trackbot> [30]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/635

     [30] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/635

   JS: This is related to issue-635
   ... We needed a test case specifically for rowgroup so we can
   customize the mappings and be sure they are right.

   CS: I will work on this soon.

   <clown> [31]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23

     [31] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23

Action 967

   <clown> action-967?

   <trackbot> action-967 -- Janina Sajka to work with Rich to work
   with DAISY establish a structural navigation model for ARIA
   landmarks related to comment 362 -- due 2014-01-08 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [32]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/967

     [32] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/967

   <clown>
   [33]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/comments/details?comment_id
   =362

     [33] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/comments/details?comment_id=362

   Janina: I think this will be covered by the new roles which
   will be discussed by the epub group.

   RS: All the roles related to ebooks will be delivered through
   the ARIA role attribute.

   JS: So this issue can be closed as being taken up by epub.

   Janina: They really want support in the HTML validator.

   RS: We have a fallback mechanism in the role attributes, so if
   it's not something the browser knows about it's not terrible.

   Janina: But I think they still want the validator to pass and
   flag these roles.
   ... And I don't think this is automatic.

   (Group agrees to close this)

Action 1280

   <clown> action-1280?

   <trackbot> action-1280 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Take a first
   pass at pulling aria core implementation out of aria UAIG --
   due 2013-10-25 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [34]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1280

     [34] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1280

   RS: We already have a first draft.

   JS: And I'm already working on the keyboard nav and focus
   section.

   Janina: IndieUI-ify it.

   JS: It's now closed.

   RS: I'm writing the SVG2 mapping spec.

   JS: All the table entries now have IDs. But I don't think it
   happened in time for the heartbeat.

   <clown> [35]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23

     [35] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23

Other burning issues?

   <clown> action-1258?

   <trackbot> action-1258 -- Jon Gunderson to Write some uaig test
   cases and expected results starting with test case 102 and
   working backward -- due 2013-09-16 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [36]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1258

     [36] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1258

   RS: Can we just close action 1258?

   JS: I think Jon did this with his big ramp up to running the
   test cases.
   ... Closed.

   <clown> action-980?

   <trackbot> action-980 -- David Bolter to Define mappings for
   managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset,
   arla-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5
   bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2014-07-22 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [37]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980

     [37] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980

   RS: We don't have action-980 done yet?

   DB: I think you are waiting on me for that one?

   JS: We just changed the due date.

   <clown> action-1279?

   <trackbot> action-1279 -- Shane McCarron to Talk to mobile
   manufacturers about how to include their apis -- due 2013-10-25
   -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [38]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1279

     [38] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1279

   RS: Action 1279 is one we should really get started on.
   ... We don't have any mobile API mappings.
   ... This is really important.
   ... I don't know if Shane is the right guy to have this.

   JS: It looks like this used to be associated with the spec, but
   James Craig seems to have moved it.

   RS: I think the person you might want to reach out to first is
   James Craig when he gets back from vacation.

   CS: And google?

   RS: Dominic would know the right person.

   CS: And BlackBerry?

   RS: Do you do anything different for mobile?

   CS: I would need to check.

   Janina: It's probably smart to list it regardless.

   RS: Larry should be pretty familiar with it since he worked on
   narrator for mobile.

   action-1320

   <trackbot> action-1320 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Consider
   mapping the "offscreen" api properties in the situation of
   aria-hidden="false" on non-rendered elements. -- due 2014-12-23
   -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [39]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1320

     [39] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1320

   <clown> action-1320?

   <trackbot> action-1320 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Consider
   mapping the "offscreen" api properties in the situation of
   aria-hidden="false" on non-rendered elements. -- due 2014-12-23
   -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [40]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1320

     [40] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1320

   DB: This is pretty complex.

   JS: My impression from bugzilla discussions at Mozilla is that
   they might not change their minds.
   ... I offered that whatever you do for offscreen could also be
   used for aria-hidden=false
   ... But Alex didn't seem to want to do this.

Alex will take over for Pete Brunet as IA2 maintainer.

   DB: And Alex would like more members.

   CS: Does this mean IA2 is in active development again?

   Group: Yes!

   (Group discusses the desire to have the Accessibility APIs
   converge)

   RS: ARIA 2 might be the right time to do this.

   <clown>
   [41]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/000
   7.html

     [41] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0007.html

Why is there no checked state for radios in IE?

   BG: Describes what is in
   [42]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/000
   7.html

     [42] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0007.html

   CS: That sounds like a bug.

   BG: I'll file it if you tell me where to do so.

   <clown>
   [43]http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-imple
   mentation.html#keyboard-focus_tabindex

     [43]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#keyboard-focus_tabindex

Tab index value

   <cyns> IE bugs go here [44]http://connect.microsoft.com/ie

     [44] http://connect.microsoft.com/ie

   RS: Tab index is read/write in HTML5.
   ... I need to talk to Steve about this.

   JS: If you have rotating tabs, you might want to set the value
   to -1.

   <clown> jQuery.attr ('tabindex', −1)

   who as aaaa?

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Cynthia to check with IE team whether statement
   re: ACTION-1115, "User agents MUST NOT expose a custom role in
   MSAA's accRole property." can be a SHOULD NOT. [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2014/07/08-aapi-minutes.html#action01]

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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Received on Tuesday, 8 July 2014 20:06:07 UTC