- From: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
- Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 17:14:08 -0700
- To: Jon Gunderson <jongund@illinois.edu>
- Cc: Aaron M Leventhal <aleventh@us.ibm.com>, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@exchange.microsoft.com>, George Young <gcyoung@microsoft.com>, W3C WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>
I think George and Cynthia originally sent it out as an attachment, so I've uploaded their example here. http://cookiecrook.com/test/aria/tree/microsoft_original/ariatree.htm On Sep 7, 2008, at 6:58 AM, Jon Gunderson wrote: > Is there a link to the Microsoft implementation of tree? > > Jon > > > ---- Original message ---- >> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 12:42:26 +0200 >> From: Aaron M Leventhal <aleventh@us.ibm.com> >> Subject: RE: Tree sample code >> To: Cynthia Shelly <cyns@exchange.microsoft.com> >> Cc: George Young <gcyoung@microsoft.com>, "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org >> >, wai-xtech-request@w3.org >> >> The graceful degredation might work if you put >> role="presentation" in the right places. Let's work >> together on that. >> >> In general need to "circle the wagons" on ARIA >> implementations so that the same things work in both >> IE and Firefox. >> Can we all agree to try out our ideas in each >> other's implementations or at least make sure the >> ARIA user agent implementor's guide reflects the >> algorithm you will use when exposing the positional >> info to the AT. >> >> If you can read between the lines, I'm honestly just >> worried that we're all doing different things >> without checking with each other and trying it out >> with the currently shipping implementations that >> already work, or even checking it against the ARIA >> spec or implementors guide. If everyone structures >> their test widgets slightly differently, any 2 >> implementations will work differently. Authors will >> end up with a mess. IOW please just take this as me >> hoping we can go back and forth until we agree to do >> trees the same way, not to mention menubars, combo >> boxes and other complex composite widgets with >> potential structural choices. >> >> - Aaron >> >> From: Cynthia Shelly >> <cyns@exchange.microsoft.com> >> To: Aaron M Leventhal/Cambridge/IBM@IBMUS >> Cc: George Young <gcyoung@microsoft.com>, >> "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org> >> Date: 09/06/2008 12:52 AM >> Subject: RE: Tree sample code >> >> ------------------------------------------------ >> >> #1 is probably just do to our inexperience. If >> it’s not needed, that’s great. >> >> So, #2 is the point of this code sample. Use the >> native semantics as far as they go, and then >> progressively enhance with ARIA. I feel pretty >> strongly that this type of graceful degradation >> pattern should be supported if we want accessibility >> in the broadest range of user agents. >> >> As a side note, I am getting position and nesting >> info with IE 8 Beta 2 and JAWS 9.0.2169 with the >> virtual cursor turned off, and I’m also seeing it >> in MSAA description field in Inspect32. The child >> count is incorrect, and I haven’t yet figured out >> why. >> >> >> From: Aaron M Leventhal [mailto:aleventh@us.ibm.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:56 AM >> To: Cynthia Shelly >> Cc: George Young; wai-xtech@w3.org >> Subject: Re: Tree sample code >> >> Here are my comments on Microsoft's tree sample: >> 1. It uses aria-level, aria-setsize and >> aria-posinset when it doesn't need to. >> The idea is that authors only need to do that if the >> tree is not DOM complete -- iow it's loaded >> dynamically. When the entire tree structure is there >> the user agent is supposed to calculate that info >> from the structure. >> 2. It uses <li><a/></li> constructs. >> This seems to be to allow for graceful degredation >> for non-ARIA clients. However, it means that the >> tree has list, list item and tree item objects mixed >> together, and no longer looks like a tree widget to >> current generation ATs. Neither current ATs nor >> Firefox 3 will process the structure and >> automatically provide info like the level, posinset >> and setsize. >> In general, the current implementors guide algorithm >> will not work with this tree. So either the tree >> needs to change, or the impl guide algorithm or >> both. >> What do you suggest? >> - Aaron >> >> From: Cynthia Shelly >> <cyns@exchange.microsoft.com> >> To: "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org> >> Cc: George Young <gcyoung@microsoft.com> >> Date: 07/07/2008 11:21 PM >> Subject: Tree sample code >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------ >> >> As promised, here is a zip of the tree sample I >> demo’d at the face to face. >> >> Tree.htm uses only nested unordered lists of links >> (with onclick handlers) to achieve tree behavior. >> JAWS in virtual cursor mode with medium verbosity >> does a good job of reading the list levels. >> Tab+enter opens and closes the tree levels. >> >> Ariatree.htm is the same tree, with aria markup >> added to the links. With virtual cursor turned off, >> list level information is exposed to MSAA. This was >> tested with IE8 beta 1 and JAWS 9. There are a few >> bugs in what is exposed to MSAA by IE in this early >> build, which will be fixed. >> >> I’ve copied George Young, who wrote the original >> tree, to which I added ARIA for the CSUN demo. >> George is the best person to work with on combining >> this tree with any other samples that have more >> extensive keyboard handling features.[attachment >> "trees.zip" deleted by Aaron M >> Leventhal/Cambridge/IBM]
Received on Monday, 8 September 2008 00:14:51 UTC