- From: Jon Gunderson <jongund@illinois.edu>
- Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 08:58:03 -0500 (CDT)
- To: Aaron M Leventhal <aleventh@us.ibm.com>, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@exchange.microsoft.com>
- Cc: George Young <gcyoung@microsoft.com>, wai-xtech@w3.org, wai-xtech-request@w3.org
Is there a link to the Microsoft implementation of tree? Jon ---- Original message ---- >Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 12:42:26 +0200 >From: Aaron M Leventhal <aleventh@us.ibm.com> >Subject: RE: Tree sample code >To: Cynthia Shelly <cyns@exchange.microsoft.com> >Cc: George Young <gcyoung@microsoft.com>, "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org>, wai-xtech-request@w3.org > > The graceful degredation might work if you put > role="presentation" in the right places. Let's work > together on that. > > In general need to "circle the wagons" on ARIA > implementations so that the same things work in both > IE and Firefox. > Can we all agree to try out our ideas in each > other's implementations or at least make sure the > ARIA user agent implementor's guide reflects the > algorithm you will use when exposing the positional > info to the AT. > > If you can read between the lines, I'm honestly just > worried that we're all doing different things > without checking with each other and trying it out > with the currently shipping implementations that > already work, or even checking it against the ARIA > spec or implementors guide. If everyone structures > their test widgets slightly differently, any 2 > implementations will work differently. Authors will > end up with a mess. IOW please just take this as me > hoping we can go back and forth until we agree to do > trees the same way, not to mention menubars, combo > boxes and other complex composite widgets with > potential structural choices. > > - Aaron > > From: Cynthia Shelly > <cyns@exchange.microsoft.com> > To: Aaron M Leventhal/Cambridge/IBM@IBMUS > Cc: George Young <gcyoung@microsoft.com>, > "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org> > Date: 09/06/2008 12:52 AM > Subject: RE: Tree sample code > > ------------------------------------------------ > > #1 is probably just do to our inexperience. If > it’s not needed, that’s great. > > So, #2 is the point of this code sample. Use the > native semantics as far as they go, and then > progressively enhance with ARIA. I feel pretty > strongly that this type of graceful degradation > pattern should be supported if we want accessibility > in the broadest range of user agents. > > As a side note, I am getting position and nesting > info with IE 8 Beta 2 and JAWS 9.0.2169 with the > virtual cursor turned off, and I’m also seeing it > in MSAA description field in Inspect32. The child > count is incorrect, and I haven’t yet figured out > why. > > > From: Aaron M Leventhal [mailto:aleventh@us.ibm.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:56 AM > To: Cynthia Shelly > Cc: George Young; wai-xtech@w3.org > Subject: Re: Tree sample code > > Here are my comments on Microsoft's tree sample: > 1. It uses aria-level, aria-setsize and > aria-posinset when it doesn't need to. > The idea is that authors only need to do that if the > tree is not DOM complete -- iow it's loaded > dynamically. When the entire tree structure is there > the user agent is supposed to calculate that info > from the structure. > 2. It uses <li><a/></li> constructs. > This seems to be to allow for graceful degredation > for non-ARIA clients. However, it means that the > tree has list, list item and tree item objects mixed > together, and no longer looks like a tree widget to > current generation ATs. Neither current ATs nor > Firefox 3 will process the structure and > automatically provide info like the level, posinset > and setsize. > In general, the current implementors guide algorithm > will not work with this tree. So either the tree > needs to change, or the impl guide algorithm or > both. > What do you suggest? > - Aaron > > From: Cynthia Shelly > <cyns@exchange.microsoft.com> > To: "wai-xtech@w3.org" <wai-xtech@w3.org> > Cc: George Young <gcyoung@microsoft.com> > Date: 07/07/2008 11:21 PM > Subject: Tree sample code > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > As promised, here is a zip of the tree sample I > demo’d at the face to face. > > Tree.htm uses only nested unordered lists of links > (with onclick handlers) to achieve tree behavior. > JAWS in virtual cursor mode with medium verbosity > does a good job of reading the list levels. > Tab+enter opens and closes the tree levels. > > Ariatree.htm is the same tree, with aria markup > added to the links. With virtual cursor turned off, > list level information is exposed to MSAA. This was > tested with IE8 beta 1 and JAWS 9. There are a few > bugs in what is exposed to MSAA by IE in this early > build, which will be fixed. > > I’ve copied George Young, who wrote the original > tree, to which I added ARIA for the CSUN demo. > George is the best person to work with on combining > this tree with any other samples that have more > extensive keyboard handling features.[attachment > "trees.zip" deleted by Aaron M > Leventhal/Cambridge/IBM] Jon Gunderson, Ph.D. Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility Disability Resources and Educational Services Rehabilitation Education Center Room 86 1207 S. Oak Street Champaign, Illinois 61821 Voice: (217) 244-5870 WWW: http://www.cita.uiuc.edu/ WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/
Received on Sunday, 7 September 2008 13:59:21 UTC