W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > January to March 2002

RE: Navigation bars with dynamic content

From: Harry Woodrow <harrry@email.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:03:02 +0800
To: "WAI Mailing list" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Guideline 6. Ensure that pages featuring new technologies transform
gracefully.  Ensure that pages are accessible even when newer technologies
are not supported or are turned off.
Although content developers are encouraged to use new technologies that
solve problems raised by existing technologies, they should know how to make
their pages still work with older browsers and people who choose to turn off

6.1 Organize documents so they may be read without style sheets. For
example, when an HTML document is rendered without associated style sheets,
it must still be possible to read the document. [Priority 1]
When content is organized logically, it will be rendered in a meaningful
order when style sheets are turned off or not supported.

I feel I have provided you the information but I will certainly send you a
screen shot when I can access the page again.  At the moment I can't seem to
get there but that could be my isp.

Possibly there has been some misunderstanding,  I felt your original comment
that "I am obviously perfectly capable of testing with IE's accessibility
features, and do not have any problems with the page, could .." was
dismisive of my inability to access the page correctly under IE6 in the way
in which I chose to access the web.  If this was not the intention I am
perfectly happy to continue trying to explain how the page does not meet my

Regarding the dual messages this is the default that the list uses.  I have
allready queried this practice in a previous post but go no replies so I
must assume that it is the way users require this list to be.

Harry Woodrow
-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
Behalf Of Jim Ley
Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2002 10:33 PM
To: WAI Mailing list
Subject: Re: Navigation bars with dynamic content

 "Harry Woodrow":
> If I cannot read where I am going how can I know to click there?

Can you provide a screenshot, if you aren't willing to provide me with
the information to recreate your scenario?

> Does the user have to write a css for every page?

Of course not, why would they?

>....the default one should be enough.

The default one in browsers is flawed where CSS-P is concerned, is that a
failing with CSS-P or those browsers?

> Whether you wish to make it accessible to users is up to you.  I merely
> pointed out as you had asked the conditions that in my opinion as a
user I
> felt inacessible.

I have only asked for you to explain how it is inaccessible - if I asked
you to complete the goal of say finding the useful addresses, which is in
the information office - could you do it?  what prevents you of achieving
that goal?

> In my
> opinion expecting the user to click on a blue and black mess of lines
is not
> a normal user choice.

The user chooses the colours.  If it's just the CSS-P problem with your
browser (which I've explained.)  Are you suggesting that CSS-P should not
be used as it's not accessible - In WCAG 1, we're told to use W3
technologies as they have built-in accessibility technologies, CSS-P is a
W3 technology.  Checkpoint 3.3 is
"Use style sheets to control layout and presentation. [Priority 2] "  Is
this checkpoint flawed as CSS-P makes pages inaccessible?

CSS is also advocated for layout in WCAG 2.0 - Is CSS for layout wrong,
or is your User Agent not configured optimally?  - I've provided the
simple steps you need to overcome the flaw in your UA (and it's not a
page specific fix, it's a fix for your UA.)


(I am subscribed to the list, copying me in on the post is unnecessary.)

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Received on Thursday, 31 January 2002 10:03:13 UTC

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