RE: local copies of WAI logo

I realize I'm using list bandwidth for what may seem to be a micro-issue, 
but there's at least one company that's genuinely concerned that they do it 
right, and they want to see permission to copy the logo it in e-writing, 
not just hear my opinion (or anyone's personal opinion for that 
matter).   We don't want discourage any other companies from using the logo 
just because they don't want to reference images on another server, 
especially companies as careful as this one.

So, my corrected proposal is that we follow the example of the w3c 
validator and
we issue an erratum that allows people to use local copies of the 
compliance logos.

Do most people agree and can the others live with that?

(I'll also happily accept a bilateral dictatorial decision from the chairs 
<grin/> )

Len

At 11:16 PM 12/19/00 -0500, Al Gilman wrote:
>At 08:45 AM 2000-12-19 -0500, Leonard R. Kasday wrote:
> >Is there a w3c policy which simply allows or doesn't allow people to make
> >local copies?   If so, lets follow it.  (I couldn't find it however).
> >
>
>This is why we have a Web Architecture Group forming up.  In principle we have
>a policy, but not all the layers of rules connecting general principles with
>bits for individual information resources are in place and connected up and
>down the line.
>
>As I have said before and elsewhere, the W3C has been living under the
>illusion
>that it didn't have to mess with controlling substantive changes.  The
>existing
>W3C practices are really only sufficiently for W3C pronouncements that are
>eternally good.  Web clients don't really honor "expires" data in practice, so
>it is hard to mechanize a fully functional policy.  Let's just not go there
>over this detail.
>
> >If it's up to each w3c group to decide its own policy (which would surprise
> >me), and we need to debate this, my two cents would be:
> >
>
>There is not a complete plan coming at us from top down.  That is why I
>suggest
>(in this instance - note exception to general pattern!) we just do it and see
>who tells us we did it wrong.  We could ask Gerald who he talked to or who
>talked to him about the "copy permitted" legend on the validator icon.
>
> >1. If we change the logo in a purely cosmetic way, with no change in
> >meaning, it doesn't matter if people are using the old one, so copies can
> >be allowed.
> >
> >2. If we change both the logo's meaning along with its appearance, then
> >it's not appropriate to have it change without the page owner being able to
> >control it, so local copies should actually be recommended.
> >
>
>This much of the W3C global policy is clear:  If you change the meaning of a
>conformance claim, you should be changing the URI-reference which points to
>the
>definition of the standard to which [the subject of the claim] claim to
>comply.  So on the W3C side if we change the rules, we have to create a new
>URI
>by which people will identify the rules when they claim conformance to the new
>rules.  So we are not supposed to change the rules behind a published URI,
>once
>the rules are an official pronouncement of the W3C.  Note that this does not
>strictly apply to URIs for namespaces, and there is still debate about how
>much
>change should precipitate a namespace URI change.  Whether and how much we
>change the icon when we change the rules is a separate question.  It could be
>that the family resemblance of the old vs. new icon is more important than
>signaling minute changes in the configuration of the ruleset.
>
> >I also support the point made by Kynn about the practical problems of
> >referring to images on w3c servers.  And thanks William for  pointing that
> >copies are OK for the validator.
> >
> >So I move we post a small errata that local copies be encouraged.
> >
>
>I suggest Len accept as a friendly amendment that we publish "a small erratum"
>since there is only one involved here.  Speaking of errata...
>
>Al
>
> >Len
> >
> >
> >At 03:10 PM 12/18/00 -0800, you wrote:
> >>At 01:31 PM 12/18/2000 , Cynthia Shelly wrote:
> >> >If we ask people to point to the official one, we can change it if we 
> need
> >> >to.  If we encourage people to make local copies, then old versions will
> >> >hang around forever.
> >>
> >>If we ask people to point to the official one then we are asking
> >>for a great amount of load on W3C servers, we are asking for
> >>people to potentially violate firewalls to use the logo, and we
> >>are making it unusable in situations which are not directly web
> >>connected.  That's silly, to me, and it doesn't fit with any other
> >>W3C logo usage.
> >>
> >>Note that other W3C logos can be used, say, on boxes of software.
> >>There's no concern about "old versions being around forever" and
> >>in fact that's not necessarily a bad thing.  In what kind of scenario
> >>would we change the logo, and why wouldn't we want the old one
> >>to persist?
> >>
> >>--Kynn
> >>
> >>--
> >>Kynn Bartlett  <kynn@idyllmtn.com>
><http://kynn.com/>http://kynn.com/
> >>Director of Accessibility, Edapta
><http://www.edapta.com/>http://www.edapta.com/
> >>Chief Technologist, Idyll Mountain Internet
><http://www.idyllmtn.com/>http://www.idyllmtn.com/
> >>AWARE Center Director
><http://www.awarecenter.org/>http://www.awarecenter.org/
> >>What's on my bookshelf?
><http://kynn.com/books/>http://kynn.com/books/
> >
> >--
> >Leonard R. Kasday, Ph.D.
> >Institute on Disabilities/UAP and Dept. of Electrical Engineering at Temple
> >University
> >(215) 204-2247 (voice)                 (800) 750-7428 (TTY)
> ><http://astro.temple.edu/~kasday>http://astro.temple.edu/~kasday
><mailto:kasday@acm.org>mailto:kasday@acm.org
> >
> >Chair, W3C Web Accessibility Initiative Evaluation and Repair Tools Group
> ><http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/IG/>http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/IG/
> >
> >The WAVE web page accessibility evaluation assistant:
> ><http://www.temple.edu/inst_disabilities/piat/wave/>http://www.temple.edu/
>inst_disabilities/piat/wave/
> >

--
Leonard R. Kasday, Ph.D.
Institute on Disabilities/UAP and Dept. of Electrical Engineering at Temple 
University
(215) 204-2247 (voice)                 (800) 750-7428 (TTY)
http://astro.temple.edu/~kasday         mailto:kasday@acm.org

Chair, W3C Web Accessibility Initiative Evaluation and Repair Tools Group
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/IG/

The WAVE web page accessibility evaluation assistant: 
http://www.temple.edu/inst_disabilities/piat/wave/