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Re: Am I right that WebPage lacks a generic property for linking to WebPageElement?

From: Jarno van Driel <jarno@quantumspork.nl>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 12:13:49 +0100
Message-ID: <CAFQgrbYcK4SAYqXCUW9xqWvEckZmgAgh8y97QmN8RjXx6L6kMQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
Cc: Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>, Public Vocabs <public-vocabs@w3.org>
Thanks for raising the issue Martin, because I certainly agree something
needs to be done to clarify the purpose and the usage of the different
webpage elements and how to link them.

One of the things I'm still struggling with for example is how to markup
webpage elements that contain several webpage elements themselves. To give
a small example:

<body itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/WebPage">
    <div itemprop="text">
        <article itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Product">
            <!-- Product data goes here -->
    </div>

    <aside itemprop="mentions" itemscope itemtype="
http://schema.org/WPSideBar">
        <ul itemprop="about" itemscope itemtype="
http://schema.org/SiteNavigationElement">
            <li itemprop="about" itemscope itemtype="
http://schema.org/CollectionPage">
                <a itemprop="url" href title>
                    <span itemprop="name">Laptops</span>
                </a>
            </li>
             <li itemprop="about" itemscope itemtype="
http://schema.org/CollectionPage">
                <a itemprop="url" href title>
                    <span itemprop="name">Tablets</span>
                </a>
            </li>
            <!-- etc -->
        </ul>
        <section itemprop="about" itemscope itemtype="
http://schema.org/ContactPoint">
            <span itemprop="name">Customer service</span><br>
            <span itemprop="telephone" class="telephone">+31 1012 345
678</span>
        </section>
    </aside>
</body>

Here I wonder:
a. If WPSideBar should have a <div itemprop="text"> enclosing the webpage
elements it contains instead of linking the individual webpage elements
with the 'about' property?
The argument for using the 'text' property instead is that one could
consider these webpage elements the textual content of the WPSideBar but on
the other hand the different items don't necessarily relate to each other
and therefore I feel should be linked to the WPSideBar with the 'about'
property (as shown) to clarify the sidebar is about the several
elements/subjects and not just a mush of data.

b. If it is really necessary to link webpage elements to the parent that
contains them at all and having them unlinked in the graph isn't already
enough (this also counts for the WPSideBar)?
Now personally I'm not a big fan of unlinked elements outside of a
container with the 'text' property because than you leave it up to a parser
to interpret where those elements fit in and I have seen Google return
inconsistent search results as a consequence. But I always wonder if I'm
not overdoing it by trying to link just about everything together.


On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 10:43 AM, Martin Hepp <
martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org> wrote:

> Hi Jarno,
> Thanks for the swift reply. I also think mentions could be a quick fix for
> that; maybe Dan can comment on whether this direction is supported
> (conceptually) by the sponsors of schema.org? Then, simply updating the
> textual definition would do the trick.
> Martin
>
> On Jan 19, 2014, at 10:34 AM, Jarno van Driel wrote:
>
> > So far I have been using http://schema.org/mentions to link (secondary)
> webpageelements to a WebPage, while using http://schema.org/text to
> enclose the primary content, and personally I'm quite happy marking it up
> as such.
> >
> > I always figured that webpage elements like WPHeader/WPSideBar/etc
> mirror their HTML equivalents like <header>/<aside>/etc, which in their
> turn exist to markup related/secondary content. For me the meaning of
> http://schema.org/mentions reflects this perfectly while
> http://schema.org/pageElement seems a bit too generic and could lead to
> confusion weither it implies primary or secondary webpage elements.
> >
> > Now I'm aware the description of http://schema.org/mentions doesn't
> reflect this and on top of that there are no clear examples on schema.orgwhich show how to properly use webpage elements but maybe adding some good
> examples would be enough to clarify things. Adding a new property for this
> seems a bit overkill IMHO.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Martin Hepp <
> martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org> wrote:
> > Dear all:
> >
> > As far as I understand,
> >
> >     http://schema.org/WebPageElement
> >
> > would provide a nice way of exposing the meaning of, and meta-data for,
> page elements, which could be used by search engines e.g. for guessing the
> best contextual links (as opposed to breadcrumbs, which imply some kind of
> hierarchy). In particular, one could nicely use
> >
> >     http://schema.org/SiteNavigationElement
> >
> > to mark-up important links inside the page, which would often make good
> contextual links.
> >
> > Unfortunately,
> >
> >     http://schema.org/WebPage
> >
> > does not define a generic property for linking from the WebPage to
> multiple
> >
> >     http://schema.org/WebPageElement
> >
> > entities in the same page.
> >
> > Formally,
> >
> >     http://schema.org/mentions
> >
> > would work, but I am unsure whether this is intended.
> >
> >     http://schema.org/isPartOf
> >
> > would work from the perspective of the
> >
> >     http://schema.org/SiteNavigationElement,
> >
> > but could lead to circular processing of the data.
> >
> >     http://schema.org/mainContentOfPage
> >
> > works only for the most important WegPageElement.
> >
> > I think the best solution would be to add a property
> >
> >     http://schema.org/pageElement
> >
> > Indicates that the web page element is a relevant part of the Web page
> (e.g. for linking from a web page to its site navigation elements).
> >
> > What do others think? Did I miss anything?
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > martin hepp
> > e-business & web science research group
> > universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
> >
> > e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
> > phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
> > fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
> > www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
> >          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> > skype:   mfhepp
> > twitter: mfhepp
> >
> > Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> > =================================================================
> > * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> martin hepp
> e-business & web science research group
> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>
> e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> skype:   mfhepp
> twitter: mfhepp
>
> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> =================================================================
> * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>
>
>
>
Received on Sunday, 19 January 2014 11:14:17 UTC

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