W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-vocabs@w3.org > January 2014

Re: Marking up quotes that relate to known Freebase topics/people

From: Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 13:25:54 +0000
Message-ID: <CAK-qy=7Dxo9woRzNNFTzKfTT4QPaPdXNVOAO2_4p0b2nkNbCqA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Quotations Book <quotationsbook@gmail.com>
Cc: Shawn Simister <simister@google.com>, Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>, W3C Web Schemas Task Force <public-vocabs@w3.org>
On 15 January 2014 12:09, Quotations Book <quotationsbook@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for your help, Shawn and Martin.
>
> Each quote instance in these curated listings has now been marked up:
>
> http://quotationsbook.com/quotes/tag/adversity/
> http://quotationsbook.com/quotes/author/2294/
>
> Further - the permalink of each individual quote has also been marked up,
> and serves as the sort of “canonical” URL:
>
> http://quotationsbook.com/quote/1013/
>
> Everything but the sameAs link to Freebase has been added (we are still
> working on this by hand, a few weeks on!!)
>
> Please let me know if this looks complete or if you have any further
> comments. Google Webmaster Central seems to recognise the structured data
> objects at least. I am not sure about the timeline on this, perhaps you can
> fill me in. What is the time between:
>
> The Quotation proposal going to a published specification on schema.org?
> Search engine parsers understanding the markup?
> After this - actually implementing marked-up results visually in search
> results as rich snippets, or simply - as "answers"?

There is no fixed schedule or guarantees. Schema.org and specific
search products are quite de-coupled from schema.org.

Since schema.org is encoded in Microdata, RDFa and JSON-LD, there are
various tools that are rather generic which will automatically (in
some sense) understand your markup. So you see this for example with
Google Webmaster Central which recognises the entity-property->value
graph. Google Custom Search is also somewhat generic in this way, i.e.
configurable - https://developers.google.com/custom-search/docs/snippets
- without waiting for some product team to do the work.

Dan

> We don’t want our quotes showing up in search results, or elsewhere -
> without attribution to quotationsbook.com. Seriously, it’s been mind-numbing
> to link every entity to Freebase manually, and we are still doing it!
> Perhaps someone from Google/Bing can fill me in.
>
> In terms of sources for quotes, the internet is littered with problems and
> we have just invested in a strong, half-year initiative to try and attribute
> every quote we have to a proper source. Is there any special markup we can
> add for the source of a quote - especially if the book it comes from - has
> an ISBN?
>
> thanks
> Amit
>
> On Friday, 6 December 2013 at 18:21, Shawn Simister wrote:
>
> Thanks for pointing that out Martin, you're correct, it should be <link>
> instead of <meta>.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 12:58 AM, Martin Hepp
> <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Shawn,
> great example. One question: Wouldn't it be better to use the link element
> to use the entity URI in Freebase?
>
> So
>
>>       <span itemprop="author" itemscope
>> itemtype="http://schema.org/Person"
>> itemid="http://quotationsbook.com/quotes/author/7349/">
>>               <a itemprop="name"
>> href="http://quotationsbook.com/quotes/author/7349/">Mark Twain</a>
>>               <link itemprop="sameAs"
>> href="http://www.freebase.com/m/014635" />
>
> instead of
>
>>       <span itemprop="author" itemscope
>> itemtype="http://schema.org/Person"
>> itemid="http://quotationsbook.com/quotes/author/7349/">
>>               <a itemprop="name"
>> href="http://quotationsbook.com/quotes/author/7349/">Mark Twain</a>
>>               <meta itemprop="sameAs"
>> content="http://www.freebase.com/m/014635" >
>
> Justification:
>
>
> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/semantics.html#the-meta-element
>
> says
>
>    "Metadata names whose values are to be URLs must not be proposed or
> accepted. Links must be represented using the link element, not the meta
> element."
>
>
> Also, I am not 100% sure what the convention and requirement is regarding
> end tags with meta in HTML5. It is clear that the closing slash can be
> omitted for meta when the document is served as text/html. But I think there
> was discussion that is should be omitted. At least this should be consistent
> in the schema.org specification.
>
> Martin
>
>
> On Dec 6, 2013, at 1:59 AM, Shawn Simister wrote:
>
>> Hey Amit,
>>
>> Thanks for putting in the hard work to align your content with Freebase.
>> Fo what you're trying to accomplish you would use your own identifiers for
>> the item IDs and then use the sameAs property to align them with Freebase.
>> Here's how I would mark up a quotation (once the type is part of schema.org)
>> using Microdata:
>>
>> <div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Quotation">
>>       <p itemprop="description">Never let formal education get in the way
>> of your learning.</p>
>>       <span itemprop="author" itemscope
>> itemtype="http://schema.org/Person"
>> itemid="http://quotationsbook.com/quotes/author/7349/">
>>               <a itemprop="name"
>> href="http://quotationsbook.com/quotes/author/7349/">Mark Twain</a>
>>               <meta itemprop="sameAs"
>> content="http://www.freebase.com/m/014635" />
>>       </span> on
>>       <span itemprop="about" ietmscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Thing"
>> itemid="http://quotationsbook.com/quotes/tag/learning/">
>>               <a itemprop="name"
>> href="http://quotationsbook.com/quotes/tag/learning/">learning</a>
>>               <meta itemprop="sameAs"
>> content="http://www.freebase.com/m/0d846" />
>>       </span>
>> </div>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Quotations Book <quotationsbook@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I run a quotations site called http://quotationsbook.com and this might
>> appear a newbie question, for which I apologise.
>>
>> I have previously requested a "quotation" a unique schema.org type which
>> appears to be pending:
>> http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/QuotationSchema
>>
>> Unrelated to this, I have now disambiguated and know freebase unique
>> entity ID's for the following two object-types on my site (painstaking!):
>>       • Each author e.g. "Mark Twain". URL on my site:
>> http://quotationsbook.com/quotes/author/7349/ with Freebase ID:
>> http://www.freebase.com/m/014635
>>       • Each topic e.g. "Hope". URL on my site:
>> http://quotationsbook.com/quotes/tag/hope/ / with Freebase ID:
>> http://www.freebase.com/m/0d846
>> In fact, quotationsbook.com first generated that “Hope” topic and linked
>> it as a “quotation subject”.
>>
>> In both cases, the problem I have is referencing the author and topic
>> properly:
>>
>> - Firstly with the right schema.org markup for both author and topic
>> (please send examples)
>> - Secondly, how do I link the author and the topic to Freebase i.e.
>> declare this page has quotes about the entity Mark Twain
>>
>> How do I achieve this markup, while also referencing existing Freebase
>> entries which I know?
>>
>> Is it better to make top-level references to Freebase or to Wikipedia in
>> the long-term?
>>
>> thanks
>> Amit
>> Founder, quotationsbook.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Shawn Simister
>>
>> Knowledge Developer Relations
>> Google
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> martin hepp
> e-business & web science research group
> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>
> e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> skype:   mfhepp
> twitter: mfhepp
>
> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> =================================================================
> * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Shawn Simister
>
> Knowledge Developer Relations
> Google
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 15 January 2014 13:33:21 UTC

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