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Re: Discussion of Issue-5 (definition of tracking), and a new CP

From: Nicholas Doty <npdoty@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 00:00:19 -0700
Cc: "(public-tracking@w3.org)" <public-tracking@w3.org>
Message-Id: <BE710533-DF10-4BB8-BAEB-28258A74EDF1@w3.org>
To: David Singer <singer@apple.com>, "Roy T. Fielding" <fielding@gbiv.com>, Justin Brookman <jbrookman@cdt.org>, Heather West <heatherwest@google.com>
I have tried to clean up the wiki page for this issue, with some help from Roy and Rob (thanks, guys!). We have 5 numbered proposals (including David's "no change" below), and then I've put next to each other links to the ED and April 30 WD text for reference.

  http://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Tracking_Definition

Roy (and Justin/Heather), would you accept as a friendly amendment to your version of the April 30th WD text that we change from "attributable to" to "associated with"? I think that would match the language we've generally been using and I don't think it changes the intended meaning.

Thanks,
Nick

On October 7, 2013, at 5:52 PM, David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote:

> I think there are some good proposals on the table for this.  I'd like to add one, and a (short, I hope) discussion.
> 
> As introduction, I think it's helpful to lay out, informally, the 'creepy' that we have talked about.  It's something like "Wherever I go [on the web], organizations that I am unaware of, and for the most part cannot see, are watching me, keeping records, using those records later, and sharing them with others."
> 
> The 'multiple sites' comes in both that there are multiple organizations doing this, and that the same organization may be doing this on multiple of the sites I visit.
> 
> 
> However, we need a definition of tracking that will:
> * help to define what's possibly in scope, and definitely out of scope, for our specification;
> * inform users as to what it is that this specification helps them express
> * inform site operators what it is that this specification allows users to ask them.
> 
> For the third, I think it important that the definition allow a *single* site to answer the question "am I tracking?" and hence "am I possibly affected by this specification?"  Thus the question of 'multiple sites' should not, I think, factor into the definition.  Yes, the user is freaked that lots of sites are doing it, but we need to give a definition that a single site can work with.
> 
> 
> ** I'd like therefore to have a 'null change proposal' on the table for the existing definition:
> 
> "Tracking is the retention or use, after a network interaction is complete, of data that are, or can be, associated with a specific user, user agent, or device."
> 
> I think we had this on the table for so long that what I meant by it may be lost in the mists of time.  I wanted to try for a definition that was short, simple, and set a clear edge for what is *out* of scope. By "network interaction" I mean literally an HTTP request and its response (or similar for other protocols).  It's clearly impossible to respond if (for example) you cannot remember the IP address of the requester, and indeed it seems that using the data *present in the transaction* for the purposes of responding to that transaction should be OK and thus out of scope.  The creepy thing is the remembering, not the immediate action (if any, such as serving an ad).  So this definition leaves as clearly out of scope (a) data used in the servicing of the transaction and (b) data after the transaction which doesn't tie back to the user (or his device or user agent).
> 
> However, the definition in 2.3 "Network Transaction" goes on to define "Network Interaction", as a set of request and response, so these two don't tie together properly.  In particular, I don't think a server has a way of knowing when the user agent has done asking for resources;  does HTTP have a well-defined concept of a "single web page"?  So there are two problems here:  (a) the section name and the definition mis-match and (b) the termination is unclear to the server.  So, I think we need the supporting definition:
> 
> Network Interaction: an HTTP request and its response, or the equivalent in another protocol.  
> 
> I would like this change also added to the 'null change' CP, i.e. make the definition of 'network interaction' crisp and machine-testable.
> 
> 
> 
> I personally prefer 'data' as singular, but the existing CP (5) that claims to be a editorial revision of this doesn't seem to be that at all:
> 
> "Tracking is the collection of data across multiple parties' domains or services and retention of that data in a form that remains attributable to a specific user, user agent, or device."
> 
> Could CP(5) be labelled as an alternative, please?  I don't see it as editorial.
> 
> 
> Reading the existing definition, and the CPs, I don't think (with the possible exception of 'leave it undefined') we are very far apart.  I rather suspect we can come to a consensus on something a little more explanatory than the existing text, while not being quite as long or complex as CP(1).  In particular, I think it's fine to set up a rough delineation of what is clearly out of scope (in-transaction, data not associated with the user etc.) and then delineate in the text the precise permitted data, permitted uses, and all the nuances for first and third parties.
> 
> 
> David Singer
> Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.
> 
> 


Received on Wednesday, 9 October 2013 07:00:29 UTC

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