- From: Erik Dahlstrom <ed@opera.com>
- Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:02:31 +0200
- To: "public-svg-wg@w3.org" <public-svg-wg@w3.org>
Minutes from the July 22, 2008 telcon:
http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html
or in text format below:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
22 Jul 2008
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0071.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
heycam, ed_, aemmons, Doug_Schepers, +95249aaaa
Regrets
AG
Chair
AE
Scribe
erik
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]1.2T testsuite
2. [6]<script> and externalResourcesRequired="" (ACTION-2063)
3. [7]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008Ju
lSep/0008.html
4. [8]Use of org.w3c.svg package in Java bindings
5. [9]exceptions for non-finite floats
6. [10]Unwanted restriction for JPEG images that have colour
profiles
* [11]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 22 July 2008
<scribe> scribe: erik
<scribe> scribeNick: ed_
1.2T testsuite
<aemmons> [12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestCoverage
[12] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestCoverage
<aemmons>
[13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/006
4.html
[13]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0064.html
AE: this is the status update doug sent out
DS: just a short update
<ChrisL> I just checked in struct-cond-08-t.svg which tests
requiredFonts
AE: so you changed the table a bit, and took out some of the items
to a separate table
... we have a list of tests to be done
... I've done timer
... any other updates?
CL: added a test for requiredFonts
... opera passes, bitflash fails
CM: mine can be moved to the bottom as well
CL: when I was doing the test, we have an untested condition if you
have a list of requiredFonts
AE: add that to the list?
CL: yes
... requiredFonts with listvalues
AE: updating the table now
... any other updates?
... guessing AG hasn't had time to do his share
<ChrisL> Are the instructions at
[14]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/docs/SVGTestSuit
e-howto.html still the correct ones?
[14]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/docs/SVGTestSuite-howto.html
AE: are the assignments ok with you CL?
DS: the ones I mentioned in my email, i'll just do those
AE: requiredFeatures and requiredExtensions are covered, yes?
DS: someone had written that there was only struct-condition-1-t
... but since then there has been tests added
... each of those attributes have been tested except requiredFonts
... there are two tests basically
<ChrisL> $ grep requiredExtensions *.svg
<ChrisL> struct-cond-01-t.svg: <rect fill="red" x="0" y="0"
width="220" height="150"
<ChrisL> requiredExtensions="[15]http://example.org/bogus" />
[15] http://example.org/bogus
AE: there is some work to be done then?
DS: yes, as I mentioned in the mail
CL: requiredFormats is covered by struct-cond-204
AE: CM do you have time to do some in the next few days?
... the connection ones maybe?
CM: those will need some serverside stuff, but sure I can give it a
shot
AE: just let AG know that you're working on them
... until thursday, do people intend have all tests done?
CM: not all
DS: plan to
CL: took me a while to get started with the new cvs base
... we need to update the testsuite howto page
... does anyone have a pointer to the new one?
DS: AG was going to update it
CL: right, but this hasn't been updated in a while
DS: i'll move this to the wiki and update it
CL: yes, we need to have the shortnames correct since people will
use different names otherwise
DS: doing the update right now
AE: great progress everyone
... we still have outstanding actions on the old tests, and we need
to review and add the new tests
... we should review the tests before the f2f
... good that we have this table with tests to be reviewed
CL: i thought we would list the tests we've made, to show that we've
made progress
AE: we still have the list of recently reviewed tests
... looking a bit at the open actions against the testsuite
... most are in our member-only tracker
<aemmons> [16]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/products/13
[16] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/products/13
AE: you can go on forever with some of these comments
... we need to be prudent and pragmatic and I don't think we have to
address all of them to get the testsuite out
CL: some of them are cosmetic yes, like change this color to
something else
AE: it would be nice to clear out these open issues
... we do have alot of open actions
... so we need to triage them
... which is again something that has to be done between now and the
f2f
... tedious work, but it is something we need to focus on
... should we do a marathon telcon, with testsuite as the focus?
CL: sure
AE: what's a good date for that?
... I'm away next week
ED: i'm away the first couple of weeks in august
AE: other people, beginning of august?
CL: fine with me
AE: starting at the normal telcon time?
CL: maybe an hour earlier?
... and going for four hours
AE: typically an hour of discussion and an hour of actions
<scribe> ACTION: AE to mail the svgwg-list about the marathon telcon
[recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2106 - Mail the svgwg-list about the
marathon telcon [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-07-29].
AE: do we think we will be ready with the testsuite after the f2f?
CM: what's the remaining work?
AE: review, approve and generate references
... and we have actions against old tests too
... we haven't published the one we made in nice
CL: yes, it is in the public cvs now though
... but we should make a release with a zip file
... there is the problem with moving files to a new repository
... and revision numbers, but you can do a script to replace the
dollarsigns so that cvs don't replace those
CM: wasn't this already done for the testsuite?
CL: it's a non-changing snapshot
AE: so we can use the tricks that mikesmith suggested
CL: I still think that just making a script to replace the
dollarsigns is easier
AE: does someone have the time to publish the testsuite? and is that
more important than doing new tests?
DS: and also editing D3E
AE: I think it's more important to work on the new tests
... but it would be nice if we could push it out before the f2f
CL: let's see where we are in a few weeks
... and maybe push it out then
<script> and externalResourcesRequired="" (ACTION-2063)
<heycam>
[18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/014
9.html
[18]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0149.html
<shepazu> [19]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/mth/harness
[19] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/mth/harness
DS: the css wg has been working with the mobile web people, to make
a testsuite harness
... just take a look and we can see if we can move in a similar
direction
... they have their own testresults
... obviously this is really small, but they have their own
implementation report
... using this would allow us to step through the testsuite more
quickly
... though it would need an svg harness, this one uses a html
harness
... so this probably wouldn't work in batik or bitflash, but we
could make a similar one in svg
... if we could do this quickly then it might be worth the effort
CL: we could generate a new harness similar to this
DS: maybe after we've done the testsuite
AE: any improvement we can do to our testsuite will be good
DS: the w3c has been working on a new testsuite licensing policy
... it's being review
... allows making changes to tests, and republishing
AE: so, back to the script and eRR issue again...
CM: there are three questions
... does eRR apply to script elements
... spec is a bit unclear
CL: the intention was to require the resources to be available
... so the paragraph that mentions rendering may be an oversight
... usually you want to have all resources just like if you had it
locally
CM: second question, should eRR=true require some resource to be
there?
... so, that if you had eRR there on anything that causes a 404
require other script elements not to run?
CL: eRR can be on any subtree, so you only stop the subtree
CM: so if you had script elements before and after but eRR on only
one subtree
... you'd get the other one
... executed first, and the other one when it becomes available
... in HTML it blocks if you have a defer attribute on it
CL: scripts in html are in the head section?
DS: they can be anywhere
<ChrisL> yeah, of course they can (d'oh!)
CM: opera implements eRR?
ED: yes, 9.5 does, the interaction with scripts may need some
testing though
CM: the wording in the spec about how the tree gets constructed in
progressive rendering
... if scripts are executed when inserted we may need to tweak the
wording
DS: yes, we don't want to differ from html
CM: right, so batik parses the whole document at one time, but opera
and firefox execute script as they are inserted
RESOLUTION: when start-tags get parsed they get appended to the most
recently opened element that is still actually open (the top of the
stack)
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to update the 1.2T spec with the reworded
section on progressive rendering and tree construction [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2107 - Update the 1.2T spec with the
reworded section on progressive rendering and tree construction [on
Cameron McCormack - due 2008-07-29].
CM: the last part is about firing load events on script elements
... the scripts can refer to some external resource
... the spec doesn't take into account the case where eRR=true but
there is no reference
AE: even if the reference doesn't exist the event is fired
CM: what does it mean that it's not visible in the dom?
AE: accessible via the dom
CL: maybe it has to do with shadowtrees?
CM: if you have some subtree outside the document which you do
modifications to do they still generate events?
<ChrisL> you can traverse from a shadow tree but not to it, so it
would make sense in that context.
DS: i don't think those gets fired
CM: maybe that's what the sentence is trying to say
DS: maybe that's something for D3E
... it's not a mutation event since the document tree is not
actually changed
CM: so you don't get any events if you create and append elements
outside the tree (in that tree)?
<scribe> ACTION: DS to make sure DOM 3 Events talks about mutation
events outside of the document [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2108 - Make sure DOM 3 Events talks about
mutation events outside of the document [on Doug Schepers - due
2008-07-29].
<aemmons> "The mutation and mutation name event modules are designed
to allow notification of any changes to the structure of a document"
AE: I think it is pretty clear that you don't get events fired
outside the tree
... are we comfortable with the wording as is?
CL: maybe talking about elements that have been creaed but not yet
appended
... you wouldn't expect events to be sent to it right?
AE: so maybe it should say if it is in the document tree
CL: yes that's better
CM: ok, so the first issue about script elements without a reference
but with eRR=false, do you get a load event?
AE: it would still fire
... I remember we discussed this about a year ago
RESOLUTION: change wording from "accesible in the DOM" to be "in the
document tree"
<scribe> ACTION: cameron to make changes for script elements and eRR
as discussed in these minutes [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2109 - Make changes for script elements
and eRR as discussed in these minutes [on Cameron McCormack - due
2008-07-29].
<aemmons>
[23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/000
8.html
[23]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0008.html
[24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0008.h
tml
[24]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0008.html
Use of org.w3c.svg package in Java bindings
CM: in the java appendix the packagename has changed from svg 1.1
... was that deliberate?
... [reads the mail]
AE: so JSR-287 should be backwards compatible with 226
CM: any objections to changing it?
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to change the packagename from org.w3c.svg
to org.w3c.dom.svg in 1.2T [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2110 - Change the packagename from
org.w3c.svg to org.w3c.dom.svg in 1.2T [on Cameron McCormack - due
2008-07-29].
<aemmons>
[26]http://www.w3.org/mid/20080704024005.GB6027@arc.mcc.id.au
[26] http://www.w3.org/mid/20080704024005.GB6027@arc.mcc.id.au
exceptions for non-finite floats
CM: I had an action to make various methods throw NOT_SUPPORTED_ERR
when NaN or INF are passed to methods that take a float argument
<heycam> ACTION-2082?
<trackbot> ACTION-2082 -- Cameron McCormack to fix exceptions in the
specification for setFloat values -- due 2008-07-10 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2082
[27] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2082
AE: so you're asking if get(Presentation)Trait(NS) throws a
different exception
... I'd be hesitant to change anything there if it didn't already
have an exception
CM: these ones had exceptions already
AE: setFloatTrait has type-mismatch-err
CM: ok, so if JSR says that maybe just leave those as is
<heycam>
[28]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/svgudom.html#FloatVa
lues
[28]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/svgudom.html#FloatValues
CM: I've added some wording to cover the other cases
AE: ok, good, so I'm fine with those changes
<aemmons>
[29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/004
5.html
[29]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0045.html
Unwanted restriction for JPEG images that have colour profiles
CL: so only one comment saying this was good, and it doesn't affect
conformance
... any objections to adding this wording?
DS,AE,CM: looks ok
<scribe> ACTION: CL to remove the unwanted restriction for JPEG
images that have colour profiles [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2111 - Remove the unwanted restriction for
JPEG images that have colour profiles [on Chris Lilley - due
2008-07-29].
CL: so the css wg has just released a css3 draft that removes some
parts that svg UA:s implemented but which weren't implemented in
html/css UA:s
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: AE to mail the svgwg-list about the marathon telcon
[recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Cameron to change the packagename from org.w3c.svg to
org.w3c.dom.svg in 1.2T [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: cameron to make changes for script elements and eRR as
discussed in these minutes [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Cameron to update the 1.2T spec with the reworded
section on progressive rendering and tree construction [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: CL to remove the unwanted restriction for JPEG images
that have colour profiles [recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: DS to make sure DOM 3 Events talks about mutation
events outside of the document [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [37]scribe.perl version 1.133
([38]CVS log)
$Date: 2008/07/22 12:00:38 $
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[37] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[38] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Scribe.perl diagnostic output
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Check for newer version at [39]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002
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[39] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
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Found Scribe: erik
Found ScribeNick: ed_
Default Present: heycam, ed_, aemmons, Doug_Schepers, +95249aaaa
Present: heycam ed_ aemmons Doug_Schepers +95249aaaa
Regrets: AG
Agenda: [40]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSe
p/0071.html
Found Date: 22 Jul 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [41]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: ae cameron cl ds
[40]
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[41] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html
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