W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-svg-wg@w3.org > July to September 2008

Minutes, July 22, 2008 telcon

From: Erik Dahlstrom <ed@opera.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:02:31 +0200
To: "public-svg-wg@w3.org" <public-svg-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.ueozqhg1geuyw5@macbooked.local>

Minutes from the July 22, 2008 telcon:

   http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html

or in text format below:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

22 Jul 2008

    [2]Agenda

       [2]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0071.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           heycam, ed_, aemmons, Doug_Schepers, +95249aaaa

    Regrets
           AG

    Chair
           AE

    Scribe
           erik

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]1.2T testsuite
          2. [6]<script> and externalResourcesRequired="" (ACTION-2063)
          3. [7]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008Ju
             lSep/0008.html
          4. [8]Use of org.w3c.svg package in Java bindings
          5. [9]exceptions for non-finite floats
          6. [10]Unwanted restriction for JPEG images that have colour
             profiles
      * [11]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot> Date: 22 July 2008

    <scribe> scribe: erik

    <scribe> scribeNick: ed_

1.2T testsuite

    <aemmons> [12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestCoverage

      [12] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestCoverage

    <aemmons>
    [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/006
    4.html

      [13]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0064.html

    AE: this is the status update doug sent out

    DS: just a short update

    <ChrisL> I just checked in struct-cond-08-t.svg which tests
    requiredFonts

    AE: so you changed the table a bit, and took out some of the items
    to a separate table
    ... we have a list of tests to be done
    ... I've done timer
    ... any other updates?

    CL: added a test for requiredFonts
    ... opera passes, bitflash fails

    CM: mine can be moved to the bottom as well

    CL: when I was doing the test, we have an untested condition if you
    have a list of requiredFonts

    AE: add that to the list?

    CL: yes
    ... requiredFonts with listvalues

    AE: updating the table now
    ... any other updates?
    ... guessing AG hasn't had time to do his share

    <ChrisL> Are the instructions at
    [14]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/docs/SVGTestSuit
    e-howto.html still the correct ones?

      [14]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/docs/SVGTestSuite-howto.html

    AE: are the assignments ok with you CL?

    DS: the ones I mentioned in my email, i'll just do those

    AE: requiredFeatures and requiredExtensions are covered, yes?

    DS: someone had written that there was only struct-condition-1-t
    ... but since then there has been tests added
    ... each of those attributes have been tested except requiredFonts
    ... there are two tests basically

    <ChrisL> $ grep requiredExtensions *.svg

    <ChrisL> struct-cond-01-t.svg: <rect fill="red" x="0" y="0"
    width="220" height="150"

    <ChrisL> requiredExtensions="[15]http://example.org/bogus" />

      [15] http://example.org/bogus

    AE: there is some work to be done then?

    DS: yes, as I mentioned in the mail

    CL: requiredFormats is covered by struct-cond-204

    AE: CM do you have time to do some in the next few days?
    ... the connection ones maybe?

    CM: those will need some serverside stuff, but sure I can give it a
    shot

    AE: just let AG know that you're working on them
    ... until thursday, do people intend have all tests done?

    CM: not all

    DS: plan to

    CL: took me a while to get started with the new cvs base
    ... we need to update the testsuite howto page
    ... does anyone have a pointer to the new one?

    DS: AG was going to update it

    CL: right, but this hasn't been updated in a while

    DS: i'll move this to the wiki and update it

    CL: yes, we need to have the shortnames correct since people will
    use different names otherwise

    DS: doing the update right now

    AE: great progress everyone
    ... we still have outstanding actions on the old tests, and we need
    to review and add the new tests
    ... we should review the tests before the f2f
    ... good that we have this table with tests to be reviewed

    CL: i thought we would list the tests we've made, to show that we've
    made progress

    AE: we still have the list of recently reviewed tests
    ... looking a bit at the open actions against the testsuite
    ... most are in our member-only tracker

    <aemmons> [16]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/products/13

      [16] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/products/13

    AE: you can go on forever with some of these comments
    ... we need to be prudent and pragmatic and I don't think we have to
    address all of them to get the testsuite out

    CL: some of them are cosmetic yes, like change this color to
    something else

    AE: it would be nice to clear out these open issues
    ... we do have alot of open actions
    ... so we need to triage them
    ... which is again something that has to be done between now and the
    f2f
    ... tedious work, but it is something we need to focus on
    ... should we do a marathon telcon, with testsuite as the focus?

    CL: sure

    AE: what's a good date for that?
    ... I'm away next week

    ED: i'm away the first couple of weeks in august

    AE: other people, beginning of august?

    CL: fine with me

    AE: starting at the normal telcon time?

    CL: maybe an hour earlier?
    ... and going for four hours

    AE: typically an hour of discussion and an hour of actions

    <scribe> ACTION: AE to mail the svgwg-list about the marathon telcon
    [recorded in
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2106 - Mail the svgwg-list about the
    marathon telcon [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-07-29].

    AE: do we think we will be ready with the testsuite after the f2f?

    CM: what's the remaining work?

    AE: review, approve and generate references
    ... and we have actions against old tests too
    ... we haven't published the one we made in nice

    CL: yes, it is in the public cvs now though
    ... but we should make a release with a zip file
    ... there is the problem with moving files to a new repository
    ... and revision numbers, but you can do a script to replace the
    dollarsigns so that cvs don't replace those

    CM: wasn't this already done for the testsuite?

    CL: it's a non-changing snapshot

    AE: so we can use the tricks that mikesmith suggested

    CL: I still think that just making a script to replace the
    dollarsigns is easier

    AE: does someone have the time to publish the testsuite? and is that
    more important than doing new tests?

    DS: and also editing D3E

    AE: I think it's more important to work on the new tests
    ... but it would be nice if we could push it out before the f2f

    CL: let's see where we are in a few weeks
    ... and maybe push it out then

<script> and externalResourcesRequired="" (ACTION-2063)

    <heycam>
    [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/014
    9.html

      [18]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0149.html

    <shepazu> [19]http://www.w3.org/2007/03/mth/harness

      [19] http://www.w3.org/2007/03/mth/harness

    DS: the css wg has been working with the mobile web people, to make
    a testsuite harness
    ... just take a look and we can see if we can move in a similar
    direction
    ... they have their own testresults
    ... obviously this is really small, but they have their own
    implementation report
    ... using this would allow us to step through the testsuite more
    quickly
    ... though it would need an svg harness, this one uses a html
    harness
    ... so this probably wouldn't work in batik or bitflash, but we
    could make a similar one in svg
    ... if we could do this quickly then it might be worth the effort

    CL: we could generate a new harness similar to this

    DS: maybe after we've done the testsuite

    AE: any improvement we can do to our testsuite will be good

    DS: the w3c has been working on a new testsuite licensing policy
    ... it's being review
    ... allows making changes to tests, and republishing

    AE: so, back to the script and eRR issue again...

    CM: there are three questions
    ... does eRR apply to script elements
    ... spec is a bit unclear

    CL: the intention was to require the resources to be available
    ... so the paragraph that mentions rendering may be an oversight
    ... usually you want to have all resources just like if you had it
    locally

    CM: second question, should eRR=true require some resource to be
    there?
    ... so, that if you had eRR there on anything that causes a 404
    require other script elements not to run?

    CL: eRR can be on any subtree, so you only stop the subtree

    CM: so if you had script elements before and after but eRR on only
    one subtree
    ... you'd get the other one
    ... executed first, and the other one when it becomes available
    ... in HTML it blocks if you have a defer attribute on it

    CL: scripts in html are in the head section?

    DS: they can be anywhere

    <ChrisL> yeah, of course they can (d'oh!)

    CM: opera implements eRR?

    ED: yes, 9.5 does, the interaction with scripts may need some
    testing though

    CM: the wording in the spec about how the tree gets constructed in
    progressive rendering
    ... if scripts are executed when inserted we may need to tweak the
    wording

    DS: yes, we don't want to differ from html

    CM: right, so batik parses the whole document at one time, but opera
    and firefox execute script as they are inserted

    RESOLUTION: when start-tags get parsed they get appended to the most
    recently opened element that is still actually open (the top of the
    stack)

    <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to update the 1.2T spec with the reworded
    section on progressive rendering and tree construction [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2107 - Update the 1.2T spec with the
    reworded section on progressive rendering and tree construction [on
    Cameron McCormack - due 2008-07-29].

    CM: the last part is about firing load events on script elements
    ... the scripts can refer to some external resource
    ... the spec doesn't take into account the case where eRR=true but
    there is no reference

    AE: even if the reference doesn't exist the event is fired

    CM: what does it mean that it's not visible in the dom?

    AE: accessible via the dom

    CL: maybe it has to do with shadowtrees?

    CM: if you have some subtree outside the document which you do
    modifications to do they still generate events?

    <ChrisL> you can traverse from a shadow tree but not to it, so it
    would make sense in that context.

    DS: i don't think those gets fired

    CM: maybe that's what the sentence is trying to say

    DS: maybe that's something for D3E
    ... it's not a mutation event since the document tree is not
    actually changed

    CM: so you don't get any events if you create and append elements
    outside the tree (in that tree)?

    <scribe> ACTION: DS to make sure DOM 3 Events talks about mutation
    events outside of the document [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2108 - Make sure DOM 3 Events talks about
    mutation events outside of the document [on Doug Schepers - due
    2008-07-29].

    <aemmons> "The mutation and mutation name event modules are designed
    to allow notification of any changes to the structure of a document"

    AE: I think it is pretty clear that you don't get events fired
    outside the tree
    ... are we comfortable with the wording as is?

    CL: maybe talking about elements that have been creaed but not yet
    appended
    ... you wouldn't expect events to be sent to it right?

    AE: so maybe it should say if it is in the document tree

    CL: yes that's better

    CM: ok, so the first issue about script elements without a reference
    but with eRR=false, do you get a load event?

    AE: it would still fire
    ... I remember we discussed this about a year ago

    RESOLUTION: change wording from "accesible in the DOM" to be "in the
    document tree"

    <scribe> ACTION: cameron to make changes for script elements and eRR
    as discussed in these minutes [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2109 - Make changes for script elements
    and eRR as discussed in these minutes [on Cameron McCormack - due
    2008-07-29].

    <aemmons>
    [23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/000
    8.html

      [23]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0008.html

[24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0008.h
tml

      [24]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0008.html

Use of org.w3c.svg package in Java bindings

    CM: in the java appendix the packagename has changed from svg 1.1
    ... was that deliberate?
    ... [reads the mail]

    AE: so JSR-287 should be backwards compatible with 226

    CM: any objections to changing it?

    <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to change the packagename from org.w3c.svg
    to org.w3c.dom.svg in 1.2T [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2110 - Change the packagename from
    org.w3c.svg to org.w3c.dom.svg in 1.2T [on Cameron McCormack - due
    2008-07-29].

    <aemmons>
    [26]http://www.w3.org/mid/20080704024005.GB6027@arc.mcc.id.au

      [26] http://www.w3.org/mid/20080704024005.GB6027@arc.mcc.id.au

exceptions for non-finite floats

    CM: I had an action to make various methods throw NOT_SUPPORTED_ERR
    when NaN or INF are passed to methods that take a float argument

    <heycam> ACTION-2082?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2082 -- Cameron McCormack to fix exceptions in the
    specification for setFloat values -- due 2008-07-10 -- CLOSED

    <trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2082

      [27] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2082

    AE: so you're asking if get(Presentation)Trait(NS) throws a
    different exception
    ... I'd be hesitant to change anything there if it didn't already
    have an exception

    CM: these ones had exceptions already

    AE: setFloatTrait has type-mismatch-err

    CM: ok, so if JSR says that maybe just leave those as is

    <heycam>
    [28]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/svgudom.html#FloatVa
    lues

      [28]  
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/svgudom.html#FloatValues

    CM: I've added some wording to cover the other cases

    AE: ok, good, so I'm fine with those changes

    <aemmons>
    [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/004
    5.html

      [29]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0045.html

Unwanted restriction for JPEG images that have colour profiles

    CL: so only one comment saying this was good, and it doesn't affect
    conformance
    ... any objections to adding this wording?

    DS,AE,CM: looks ok

    <scribe> ACTION: CL to remove the unwanted restriction for JPEG
    images that have colour profiles [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action06]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2111 - Remove the unwanted restriction for
    JPEG images that have colour profiles [on Chris Lilley - due
    2008-07-29].

    CL: so the css wg has just released a css3 draft that removes some
    parts that svg UA:s implemented but which weren't implemented in
    html/css UA:s

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: AE to mail the svgwg-list about the marathon telcon
    [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to change the packagename from org.w3c.svg to
    org.w3c.dom.svg in 1.2T [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: cameron to make changes for script elements and eRR as
    discussed in these minutes [recorded in
    [33]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to update the 1.2T spec with the reworded
    section on progressive rendering and tree construction [recorded in
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: CL to remove the unwanted restriction for JPEG images
    that have colour profiles [recorded in
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action06]
    [NEW] ACTION: DS to make sure DOM 3 Events talks about mutation
    events outside of the document [recorded in
    [36]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [37]scribe.perl version 1.133
     ([38]CVS log)
     $Date: 2008/07/22 12:00:38 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [37] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [38] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

    [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51
Check for newer version at [39]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002
/scribe/

      [39] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/not all/took me a while to get started with the new cvs ba
se/
Succeeded: s/tree)/tree)?/
Succeeded: s/ make various methods/ make various methods throw/
Found Scribe: erik
Found ScribeNick: ed_
Default Present: heycam, ed_, aemmons, Doug_Schepers, +95249aaaa
Present: heycam ed_ aemmons Doug_Schepers +95249aaaa
Regrets: AG
Agenda: [40]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSe
p/0071.html
Found Date: 22 Jul 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [41]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: ae cameron cl ds

      [40]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0071.html
      [41] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/22-svg-minutes.html

    End of [42]scribe.perl diagnostic output]

      [42] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm


-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Received on Tuesday, 22 July 2008 12:03:16 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 21:20:09 UTC