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RE: Revision to tables in Appendix A (was: RE: Agenda for BP sub-group call (Wednesday 26 April, 15:00utc))

From: <andrea.perego@ec.europa.eu>
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 17:58:23 +0000
To: <public-sdw-wg@w3.org>
CC: <portele@interactive-instruments.de>, <l.vandenbrink@geonovum.nl>, <jeremy.tandy@gmail.com>, <eparsons@google.com>, <jlieberman@tumblingwalls.com>
Message-ID: <EDFF15E839F79242AA55B1468C63DDA901EB6A2C@S-DC-ESTG02-J.net1.cec.eu.int>
Dear colleagues,



I would like to ask your help to do a sanity check on the matrix of spatial data vocabularies in Appendix A, and let me know if it includes anything wrong / inaccurate:



http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/#table-vocabs-matrix



@Josh, could you please check the information in the table about GeoRSS?



BTW, about vCard, I wonder whether should we ask the W3C Semantic Web IG to review what is included in the table.



Thanks in advance



Andrea


----
Andrea Perego, Ph.D.
Scientific / Technical Project Officer
European Commission DG JRC
Directorate B - Growth and Innovation
Unit B6 - Digital Economy
Via E. Fermi, 2749 - TP 262
21027 Ispra VA, Italy

https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/

----
The views expressed are purely those of the writer and may
not in any circumstances be regarded as stating an official
position of the European Commission.

________________________________
From: PEREGO Andrea (JRC-ISPRA)
Sent: 28 April 2017 01:03
To: Clemens Portele; Linda van den Brink; Jeremy Tandy
Cc: Ed Parsons; public-sdw-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-sdw-wg@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Revision to tables in Appendix A (was: RE: Agenda for BP sub-group call (Wednesday 26 April, 15:00utc))
Thanks, Clemens.

@Linda, @Jeremy, I've just created a pull request:

https://github.com/w3c/sdw/pull/764

Cheers,

Andrea

----
Andrea Perego, Ph.D.
Scientific / Technical Project Officer
European Commission DG JRC
Directorate B - Growth and Innovation
Unit B6 - Digital Economy
Via E. Fermi, 2749 - TP 262
21027 Ispra VA, Italy

https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/

----
The views expressed are purely those of the writer and may
not in any circumstances be regarded as stating an official
position of the European Commission.

________________________________
From: Clemens Portele [portele@interactive-instruments.de]
Sent: 27 April 2017 20:24
To: PEREGO Andrea (JRC-ISPRA)
Cc: Ed Parsons; public-sdw-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-sdw-wg@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Revision to tables in Appendix A (was: RE: Agenda for BP sub-group call (Wednesday 26 April, 15:00utc))
Andrea,

looks good to me.

Thanks,
Clemens

On 27. Apr 2017, at 18:55, andrea.perego@ec.europa.eu<mailto:andrea.perego@ec.europa.eu> wrote:

Clemens, Ed,

I tried to revise the formats table following your comments:

https://andrea-perego.github.io/sdw/bp/#table-formats-matrix

Could you please have a look at it and let me know what you think?

Basically, I did what follows:

1. I re-ordered the rows, moving all those about "geometry specification" to the end of the table

2. I removed the "verbosity" row

3. I revised the content of the "usage" row, incorporating some information from the "remarks" row. Now the text is not only about whether you can use WKT, etc. for geometries and/or spatial things, but also on which is their purpose (oversimplified)

4. I added a new row "tool support", including and extending some text already included in the "remarks" row. The general idea is whether a format is supported by GIS, LD and Web tools. Please have a look and let me know if there's anything wrong (in such a case, please propose a revised text)

5. I removed the "remarks" row

Thanks

Andrea

----
Andrea Perego, Ph.D.
Scientific / Technical Project Officer
European Commission DG JRC
Directorate B - Growth and Innovation
Unit B6 - Digital Economy
Via E. Fermi, 2749 - TP 262
21027 Ispra VA, Italy

https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/

----
The views expressed are purely those of the writer and may
not in any circumstances be regarded as stating an official
position of the European Commission.

From: Clemens Portele [mailto:portele@interactive-instruments.de]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 11:00 PM
To: PEREGO Andrea (JRC-ISPRA)
Cc: public-sdw-wg@w3.org<mailto:public-sdw-wg@w3.org>; Ed Parsons
Subject: Re: Revision to tables in Appendix A (was: RE: Agenda for BP sub-group call (Wednesday 26 April, 15:00utc))

Hi Andrea,

regarding the "usage" row: maybe the label is not correct then or unclear, but I do not have a better one either. In any case, I still think that KML is not about spatial things, but about their visualization (and this is also what the standard states: "Put simply: KML encodes what to show in an earth browser, and how to show it"), which is a difference. However, I understand that such tables oversimplify things and if everyone else thinks it is ok as it is, this is fine with me, too.

Clemens


On 26. Apr 2017, at 19:51, andrea.perego@ec.europa.eu<mailto:andrea.perego@ec.europa.eu> wrote:

Thanks for the feedback, Clemens.

(I'm opening a new thread on this topic, and linking it to ACTION-126 [1] )

My comments below.

> 1. Usage: KML it is not about "Spatial things and geometries" in my view. Everything is a "Placemark" and the main focus of KML is "geographic visualization, including annotation of maps and images. Geographic visualization includes not only the presentation of graphical data on the globe, but also the control of the user's navigation in the sense of where to go and where to look."  (see http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/kml). So maybe change it to "Geographic visualization of spatial things and geometries"?

I've actually used this field to say whether a format could represent features (more in general, spatial things) and/or geometries  probably forcing the original purpose of it in Ed's table.

The last table row ("remarks") includes a statement on the purpose of KML - taken from your table ;)

[[
Focussed on visualization of and interaction with spatial data, typically in Earth browsers, like Google Earth
]]

Do you think this addresses the issue you point out?

> 2. Axis Order: The statement is incorrect for GML. It should be "Determined by the CRS used". The attribute @axisLabels may be used to state labels for the CRS axis explicitly, but that is probably an unnecessary detail here

Thanks for the correction. Text fixed accordingly:

https://andrea-perego.github.io/sdw/bp/#table-formats-matrix

> 3. Verbosity: I do not understand what the comparative measures for lightweight/medium/verbose are, but from my experience there is not such a clear difference in most cases between the formats we have in the table. There were some comparisons in OGC testbeds for some of them, but I also found this: https://tokumine.wordpress.com/2010/09/20/gis-data-payload-sizes/. If we would have binary formats in the table this row might have value, but for the formats we have I would suggest to delete the row. If we keep it, it should be clear where the cell values come from.

Actually, Ed's original table (from which I took "verbosity") included both binary and text formats. I'm happy with your suggestion to drop the row.

@Ed, WDYT?

Andrea

[1] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/actions/126

----
Andrea Perego, Ph.D.
Scientific / Technical Project Officer
European Commission DG JRC
Directorate B - Growth and Innovation
Unit B6 - Digital Economy
Via E. Fermi, 2749 - TP 262
21027 Ispra VA, Italy

https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/

----
The views expressed are purely those of the writer and may
not in any circumstances be regarded as stating an official
position of the European Commission.

From: Clemens Portele [mailto:portele@interactive-instruments.de]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 6:30 PM
To: PEREGO Andrea (JRC-ISPRA)
Cc: Jeremy Tandy; SDW WG Public List; Ed Parsons; Bill Roberts; Linda van den Brink
Subject: Re: Agenda for BP sub-group call (Wednesday 26 April, 15:00utc)

Hi Andrea, all,

as discussed in the meeting I had a look at the table. I have only a few comments:

1. Usage: KML it is not about "Spatial things and geometries" in my view. Everything is a "Placemark" and the main focus of KML is "geographic visualization, including annotation of maps and images. Geographic visualization includes not only the presentation of graphical data on the globe, but also the control of the user's navigation in the sense of where to go and where to look."  (see http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards/kml). So maybe change it to "Geographic visualization of spatial things and geometries"?

2. Axis Order: The statement is incorrect for GML. It should be "Determined by the CRS used". The attribute @axisLabels may be used to state labels for the CRS axis explicitly, but that is probably an unnecessary detail here.

3. Verbosity: I do not understand what the comparative measures for lightweight/medium/verbose are, but from my experience there is not such a clear difference in most cases between the formats we have in the table. There were some comparisons in OGC testbeds for some of them, but I also found this: https://tokumine.wordpress.com/2010/09/20/gis-data-payload-sizes/. If we would have binary formats in the table this row might have value, but for the formats we have I would suggest to delete the row. If we keep it, it should be clear where the cell values come from.

Thanks,
Clemens

On 26. Apr 2017, at 16:53, andrea.perego@ec.europa.eu<mailto:andrea.perego@ec.europa.eu> wrote:

Dear all,

About the agenda item concerning the format tables in appendix, I posted a possible revision in my sdw fork. Basically, I created two tables:

The first is about formats:

https://andrea-perego.github.io/sdw/bp/#table-formats-matrix

The second is a new one, about the vocabularies listed in the relevant section:

https://andrea-perego.github.io/sdw/bp/#table-vocabs-matrix

The first one (formats) is based on and extends Ed's one, including some information from the detailed format table prepared by Clemens.
The not included "rows" from Clemens's table are the following ones:
- Requires authoring of a vocabulary/schema for my data (or use of existing ones)
- Supports reuse of third party vocabularies for features and properties
- Supports extensions (geometry types, metadata, etc.)
- Supports non-simple property values
- Supports multiple values per property
- Supports multiple geometries per feature
- Support for non-linear interpolations in curves
- Support for non-planar interpolations in surfaces
I'll provide more details during the call.

Thanks

Andrea
----
Andrea Perego, Ph.D.
Scientific / Technical Project Officer
European Commission DG JRC
Directorate B - Growth and Innovation
Unit B6 - Digital Economy
Via E. Fermi, 2749 - TP 262
21027 Ispra VA, Italy

https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/

----
The views expressed are purely those of the writer and may
not in any circumstances be regarded as stating an official
position of the European Commission.

________________________________
From: Jeremy Tandy [jeremy.tandy@gmail.com<mailto:jeremy.tandy@gmail.com>]
Sent: 25 April 2017 17:00
To: SDW WG Public List
Subject: Agenda for BP sub-group call (Wednesday 26 April, 15:00utc)
Hi all.

Agenda for tomorrow's BP sub-group call is now available here [1].

Key points are:
* [Jeremy] Agree updated release schedule (see WG email [2])
* [Linda] Review (& hopefully resolve) open BP issues in GitHub [3] - (see prioritised list [4] so we deal with the big/important concerns first)
* [Ed] Review open public comments [5]
* [Jeremy] Sprint status review (check progress on actions listed at BP Detailed Plan [6]); particularly...
** [https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Detailed_planning_BP_document#File_formats_and_vocabularies File formats and vocabularies Appendix] - noting the material added by '''Andrea Perego''' to the section 12.2.1 [7] introduction
** Glossary [8] - noting that '''Peter Parslow''' is unable to complete this work before end-May
* AOB

Hope to 'see' you all tomorrow.

Jeremy

[1]: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:BP-Telecon20170426
[2]: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2017Apr/0300.html
[3]: https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue%20is%3Aopen%20label%3Abp
[4]: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_sorted_issue_list
[5]: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Detailed_planning_BP_document#Outstanding_public_comments
[6]: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Detailed_planning_BP_document#Mid_March_-_end_of_April_2017:
[7]: http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/#bp-expressing-spatial
[8]: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Detailed_planning_BP_document#Glossary
Received on Wednesday, 3 May 2017 17:58:59 UTC

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