Re: (human) identity fabric (agents concepts linked)

On Mon, 17 May 2021 at 02:24, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
wrote:

> On 5/15/21 6:55 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, 16 May 2021 at 00:09, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/15/21 5:21 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 15 May 2021 at 18:14, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/14/21 3:26 PM, Timothy Holborn wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorry, re: clarifications,
>>>
>>> What did it do back in ~2011/2 when I first installed it? (Vs. now?). I
>>> can pull the dates, but you likely have them in your licensing server??  I
>>> was trying to do a POC via building a heritage capability as an initial
>>> usecase, at the time.... (supporting a Hysterical/ historical society)...
>>>
>>> Does it have more functionality since then?  I assumed the answer was
>>> "yes" particularly given the status of "web payments" (pre credentials),
>>> way back then (before I ended up on the lists, something, I didn't consider
>>> would ever happen in my life, at the time)...
>>>
>>> Limitations linked to creating a knowledge banking framework. I started
>>> concepts in 2000 ("information bank" or ibank) which progressed to
>>> "knowledge banking" circa 2011/2012 after doing some work "updating" old
>>> work, from mid 2010 (indigenous application started 2009/10)..
>>>
>>> I think you're first "dataspaces" demo was 2007???  V.interested in
>>> "temporal web" / provenance solutions....
>>>
>>> Dignity enhancing web (vs. web slavery, or worse).
>>>
>>> Timothy Holborn.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Timothy,
>>>
>>> Regarding Identity, Identification, Authentication, and Authorization
>>> nothing has changed in Virtuoso.
>>>
>>> What has changed outside Virtuoso, via complimentary tools and services
>>> that we provide are as follows:
>>>
>>> [1] Browser Extensions for creating Private Keys, X.509 Certificates,
>>> Identifiers (WebIDs and NetIDs), and associated Profile Docs -- basically,
>>> killing the headache left by predictable demise of <keygen/>
>>>
>>> [2] Setting up WebID-TLS + Delegation from a Browser so that the whole
>>> thing "just works" and users aren't exposed to what they may perceive as
>>> complexity re entity relationship type (and associated semantics)
>>> triangulation
>>>
>>> The implications of the above are as follows, using a Chromium or
>>> Mozilla browser:
>>>
>>> [1] You can create credentials using your browser that are stored to an
>>> OS-provided Keystore (e.g., macOS Keychain) or PKCS#12 file
>>>
>>> [2] You can write data to a Data Space (e.g., OpenLink Data Spaces or
>>> Solid Pod) subject to ACLs using WebID-TLS (with Delegation if so desired
>>> i.e., kill off the UI/UX issues associated with browser restarts since
>>> Person and their User Agents have distinguished, but related identity)
>>>
>>>
>>> Tools that demonstrate these capabilities include:
>>>
>>> [1] YouID <http://youid.openlinksw.com/>
>>>
>>> [2] OpenLink Structured Data Sniffer
>>>
>>> <https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/openlink-structured-data/egdaiaihbdoiibopledjahjaihbmjhdj?hl=en>
>>>
>>> [3] OpenLink Structured Data Sniffer for Mozilla
>>> <https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/openlink-structured-data-sniff/>
>>>
>>> As for Virtuoso, it hasn't changed bar adding support for WebID-OIDC
>>> which enables compatibility with Solid Pods for read-write operations via
>>> WebDAV/LDP mounting functionality etc..
>>>
>>> Long story short, we are still waiting for everyone to catch up :)
>>>
>>
>> OpenLink certainly has been ahead of the curve
>>
>> I'm reminded of OSDB: https://osdb.openlinksw.com/osdb
>>
>> In particular this image:
>>
>> https://osdb.openlinksw.com/img/dastklohq01y.gif
>>
>> This is the kind of thing I envisage as a next iteration of the read
>> write web
>>
>> The idea here being that each of those modular agents are moving in time
>> to a certain rhythm
>>
>> I dont think we can easily make something like in that diagram today,
>> aside from how the web already operates.  You visit a page, you might tweet
>> it, or share it, it gets indexed by a search engine etc.  Yes, it one way,
>> but alot of centralization build in there
>>
>> What if the web had a more temporal set of heart beats which the agents
>> could be small, compact, modular, robust.  Also finite in nature due to
>> block chains being finite resources.  Or as stated in paper trail some
>> teams collaborating or competing in different contests.
>>
>> What is needed?
>>
>> - Tying read write agents to block chains using URIs (so standardize a
>> URI scheme to hook into a block chain)
>> - Ways to create fragments of a block chain that can live as mirrored
>> claims (so some schema)
>> - Ability to traverse chains in type, and data in time
>> - Ability to save the state of the agents, as well as perhaps the logic,
>> the code, the deployment (we have VCS for this)
>> - Ability for state to evolve in time, so watching for changes, for
>> deployments
>> - Ability to identify agents (URIs) and described them (Linked Data)
>> - Ability for agents to interact with one another, read write verbs (e.g.
>> PUT/POST/PATCH)
>>
>> All this can come from leveraging existing timestamp servers, providing a
>> heartbeat for multi agent read write systems, largely gluing together the
>> pieces we already have
>>
>> Perhaps OpenLink can lead the way again here, and we can devise a spec
>> together.  The aim is that gif above.  What tools can we use to get there?
>>
>>
>> Hi Melvin,
>>
>> As you know, we are always happy to lead by example especially when specs
>> are in place that offer critical foundation for interoperability.
>> Personally, I believe that are a significant number of specs in place,
>> hence our ability to quietly create the OpenLink Structured Data Bot
>> Framework (OSDB).
>>
>> Going forward, we are currently looking at URIs and Blockchains which is
>> an emerging and important frontier as you've already noted in your comments
>> above.
>>
>
> Excellent!
>
> So how advanced is the OSDB?  What can it do?  I've made a few bots
> before, and perhaps you'll agree with me on this, they are nice enough
> proof of concepts, but they are somewhat toothless.  They lack robustness,
> and need maintenance.  Can easily be turned on or off, and very much prone
> to race conditions.  After all of this, they tend not to be all that useful.
>
>
> OSDB can generate a REST-ful interaction console for any API described
> using the OpenAPI standard or RDF (e.g., Actions described using terms from
> the Schema.org Vocabulary). Naturally, any OSDB instance is a proxy for
> interacting with all the Actions that it has distilled from API
> documentation.
>
> OSDB was developed in anticipation of Siri and friends becomes extensible
> via APIs. For example, simply giving Siri new skills which are basically a
> collection of Actions.
>
> We are still waiting ...
>
>
>
> Let's give a test.  Let's say I want to make a simple step counter.  It
> hooks into my smart watch.
>
>
> You simply need the counter to be documented using either OpenAPI or RDF,
> that's it.
>
>
> It hooks into my phone pedometer, my treadmill, a bunch of stuff running
> at the same time.
>
>
> Once the step above is completed you can integrate into any device that
> has the notion of Actions and their execution.
>
>
> It then wants to store my data, and ensure that all devices can write to
> the store without conflicts.  Also, importantly the store might go down in
> a DB or a pod or git, and it should just be able to come back up elsewhere,
> ditto the bot that is managing all of this.
>
> In your terminology, "it just works".
>
>
> It will "Just Work" if the IoT devices understand Actions distilled from
> API by way of documentation using OpenAPI or RDF (e.g., using terms from
> Schema.org or other vocabs).
>
>
>
> So how close do you think we are to this, with your bots?
>
>
> The "Bot" is OSDB is really about its ability to be integrated into bots
> rather than being a bot itself per se.. It is a Bot capability enhancer, so
> to speak.
>
>
> This is the style of thing I'd like to spec with a supra operating system
> that offers web scale semaphores.  That's what binding to a time stamp
> server gives you.
>
> So, what's required to do this?
>
>
> So-called Smart Agents like Siri, Alexa, Google etc.. being extensible
> using a common method e.g., the OpenAPI or RDF standards. This hasn't
> happened yet, unfortunately. We even assumed the API Economy folks
> (typically anti RDF) would at least use OpenAPI (their own spec) but that
> hasn't happened either :(
>

There are a lot of anti RDF folks out there.  We've always tried to
encourage (semantic) web standards and RDF in this group.  There are more
standards now emerging around JSON(-LD) and schema.org is becoming a de
facto standard for the semantic web

Regarding Smart Agents instead of massive centralized personal assistants,
why dont we aim to create more decentralized and distributed personal
agents with declarative data store state machines which operate on via
standards (perhaps ones we create).

Working with "small data" rather than "big data"

But working together

Dont know much about OpenAPI, would it be a good inspiration for a spec?

>
> Same stuff we've always done, link from one URI / UUID to another.  And
> have the logic respect that.  So, basically middleware stuff, bread and
> butter for openlink!
>
>
> Yep!
>
>
> Links:
>
>
> [1] https://spec.openapis.org/oas/v3.1.0 -- OpenAPI
>
>
> Kingsley
>
>
>
>> Kingsley
>>
>>
>>
>>> Kingsley
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 15 May 2021, 5:07 am Kingsley Idehen, <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/14/21 1:07 PM, Timothy Holborn wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Overall; the underlying intent; was to create complex AUTH /
>>>> Endification / Identification fabric capabilities; that could in-turn,
>>>> support complex (hyper-private) semantics, that could only be brought about
>>>> post-technological growth; with support of political will...  i"m not sure
>>>> that' going to happen (in the western world, first or at all); but,  i
>>>> wanted to make a note that the examples provided by openlink software
>>>> (virtuoso) or Project Hydra (samvera nowadays?) didn't have enough
>>>> functionality back in 2011/2; as such, i sought to improve it, to support -
>>>> human beings, unto 'rule of law', for a moral economy, etc...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Timothy,
>>>>
>>>> To be clear:
>>>>
>>>> OpenLink Virtuoso <https://virtuoso.openlinksw.com> is a platform that
>>>> includes a multi-protocol authentication layer. One of the many supported
>>>> protocols is WebID-TLS. We also support NetID-TLS which is basically
>>>> WebID-TLS decoupled from http: scheme URIs e.g., it supports ldap: scheme
>>>> URIs.
>>>>
>>>> Authorization wise, our technology is driven 100% by RDF
>>>> sentences/statements (informed by terms from relevant ontologies).
>>>>
>>>> I don't see limitations in RDF that aren't surmounted by the use of
>>>> SPARQL as a Rules Language (like Datalog back in the day) re authorization
>>>> via access controls.
>>>>
>>>> With the clarifications above outlined, what limitation are you
>>>> speaking about?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Kingsley Idehen 
>>>> Founder & CEO
>>>> OpenLink Software
>>>> Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>>> Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com
>>>> Weblogs (Blogs):
>>>> Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
>>>> Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
>>>> Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
>>>>
>>>> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
>>>> Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen
>>>> Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
>>>>               http://kidehen.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> Profile Pages:
>>>> Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
>>>> Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
>>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen
>>>> Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>>>
>>>> Web Identities (WebID):
>>>> Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
>>>>         : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Kingsley Idehen 
>>> Founder & CEO
>>> OpenLink Software
>>> Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>> Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com
>>> Weblogs (Blogs):
>>> Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
>>> Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
>>> Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
>>>
>>> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
>>> Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen
>>> Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
>>>               http://kidehen.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> Profile Pages:
>>> Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
>>> Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen
>>> Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>>
>>> Web Identities (WebID):
>>> Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
>>>         : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen 
>> Founder & CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com
>> Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com
>> Weblogs (Blogs):
>> Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
>> Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
>> Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
>>
>> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
>> Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen
>> Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
>>               http://kidehen.blogspot.com
>>
>> Profile Pages:
>> Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
>> Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen
>> Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>
>> Web Identities (WebID):
>> Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
>>         : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
>>
>>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen 
> Founder & CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com
> Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com
> Weblogs (Blogs):
> Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
> Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
> Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
>
> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
> Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen
> Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
>               http://kidehen.blogspot.com
>
> Profile Pages:
> Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
> Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen
> Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>
> Web Identities (WebID):
> Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
>         : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
>
>