- From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
- Date: Sun, 16 May 2021 20:22:42 -0400
- To: public-rww@w3.org
- Message-ID: <bf7f9695-d66b-8fb4-4b81-bacaf29ba7b7@openlinksw.com>
On 5/15/21 6:55 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 16 May 2021 at 00:09, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com
> <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote:
>
> On 5/15/21 5:21 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 15 May 2021 at 18:14, Kingsley Idehen
>> <kidehen@openlinksw.com <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote:
>>
>> On 5/14/21 3:26 PM, Timothy Holborn wrote:
>>> Sorry, re: clarifications,
>>>
>>> What did it do back in ~2011/2 when I first installed it?
>>> (Vs. now?). I can pull the dates, but you likely have them
>>> in your licensing server?? I was trying to do a POC via
>>> building a heritage capability as an initial usecase, at the
>>> time.... (supporting a Hysterical/ historical society)...
>>>
>>> Does it have more functionality since then? I assumed the
>>> answer was "yes" particularly given the status of "web
>>> payments" (pre credentials), way back then (before I ended
>>> up on the lists, something, I didn't consider would ever
>>> happen in my life, at the time)...
>>>
>>> Limitations linked to creating a knowledge banking
>>> framework. I started concepts in 2000 ("information bank" or
>>> ibank) which progressed to "knowledge banking" circa
>>> 2011/2012 after doing some work "updating" old work, from
>>> mid 2010 (indigenous application started 2009/10)..
>>>
>>> I think you're first "dataspaces" demo was 2007???
>>> V.interested in "temporal web" / provenance solutions....
>>>
>>> Dignity enhancing web (vs. web slavery, or worse).
>>>
>>> Timothy Holborn.
>>
>>
>> Hi Timothy,
>>
>> Regarding Identity, Identification, Authentication, and
>> Authorization nothing has changed in Virtuoso.
>>
>> What has changed outside Virtuoso, via complimentary tools
>> and services that we provide are as follows:
>>
>> [1] Browser Extensions for creating Private Keys, X.509
>> Certificates, Identifiers (WebIDs and NetIDs), and associated
>> Profile Docs -- basically, killing the headache left by
>> predictable demise of <keygen/>
>>
>> [2] Setting up WebID-TLS + Delegation from a Browser so that
>> the whole thing "just works" and users aren't exposed to what
>> they may perceive as complexity re entity relationship type
>> (and associated semantics) triangulation
>>
>> The implications of the above are as follows, using a
>> Chromium or Mozilla browser:
>>
>> [1] You can create credentials using your browser that are
>> stored to an OS-provided Keystore (e.g., macOS Keychain) or
>> PKCS#12 file
>>
>> [2] You can write data to a Data Space (e.g., OpenLink Data
>> Spaces or Solid Pod) subject to ACLs using WebID-TLS (with
>> Delegation if so desired i.e., kill off the UI/UX issues
>> associated with browser restarts since Person and their User
>> Agents have distinguished, but related identity)
>>
>>
>> Tools that demonstrate these capabilities include:
>>
>> [1] YouID <http://youid.openlinksw.com/>
>>
>> [2] OpenLink Structured Data Sniffer
>> <https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/openlink-structured-data/egdaiaihbdoiibopledjahjaihbmjhdj?hl=en>
>>
>> [3] OpenLink Structured Data Sniffer for Mozilla
>> <https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/openlink-structured-data-sniff/>
>>
>> As for Virtuoso, it hasn't changed bar adding support for
>> WebID-OIDC which enables compatibility with Solid Pods for
>> read-write operations via WebDAV/LDP mounting functionality etc..
>>
>> Long story short, we are still waiting for everyone to catch
>> up :)
>>
>>
>> OpenLink certainly has been ahead of the curve
>>
>> I'm reminded of OSDB: https://osdb.openlinksw.com/osdb
>> <https://osdb.openlinksw.com/osdb>
>>
>> In particular this image:
>>
>> https://osdb.openlinksw.com/img/dastklohq01y.gif
>> <https://osdb.openlinksw.com/img/dastklohq01y.gif>
>>
>> This is the kind of thing I envisage as a next iteration of the
>> read write web
>>
>> The idea here being that each of those modular agents are moving
>> in time to a certain rhythm
>>
>> I dont think we can easily make something like in that diagram
>> today, aside from how the web already operates. You visit a
>> page, you might tweet it, or share it, it gets indexed by a
>> search engine etc. Yes, it one way, but alot of centralization
>> build in there
>>
>> What if the web had a more temporal set of heart beats which the
>> agents could be small, compact, modular, robust. Also finite in
>> nature due to block chains being finite resources. Or as stated
>> in paper trail some teams collaborating or competing in different
>> contests.
>>
>> What is needed?
>>
>> - Tying read write agents to block chains using URIs (so
>> standardize a URI scheme to hook into a block chain)
>> - Ways to create fragments of a block chain that can live as
>> mirrored claims (so some schema)
>> - Ability to traverse chains in type, and data in time
>> - Ability to save the state of the agents, as well as perhaps the
>> logic, the code, the deployment (we have VCS for this)
>> - Ability for state to evolve in time, so watching for changes,
>> for deployments
>> - Ability to identify agents (URIs) and described them (Linked Data)
>> - Ability for agents to interact with one another, read write
>> verbs (e.g. PUT/POST/PATCH)
>>
>> All this can come from leveraging existing timestamp servers,
>> providing a heartbeat for multi agent read write systems, largely
>> gluing together the pieces we already have
>>
>> Perhaps OpenLink can lead the way again here, and we can devise a
>> spec together. The aim is that gif above. What tools can we use
>> to get there?
>
>
> Hi Melvin,
>
> As you know, we are always happy to lead by example especially
> when specs are in place that offer critical foundation for
> interoperability. Personally, I believe that are a significant
> number of specs in place, hence our ability to quietly create the
> OpenLink Structured Data Bot Framework (OSDB).
>
> Going forward, we are currently looking at URIs and Blockchains
> which is an emerging and important frontier as you've already
> noted in your comments above.
>
>
> Excellent!
>
> So how advanced is the OSDB? What can it do? I've made a few bots
> before, and perhaps you'll agree with me on this, they are nice enough
> proof of concepts, but they are somewhat toothless. They lack
> robustness, and need maintenance. Can easily be turned on or off, and
> very much prone to race conditions. After all of this, they tend not
> to be all that useful.
OSDB can generate a REST-ful interaction console for any API described
using the OpenAPI standard or RDF (e.g., Actions described using terms
from the Schema.org Vocabulary). Naturally, any OSDB instance is a proxy
for interacting with all the Actions that it has distilled from API
documentation.
OSDB was developed in anticipation of Siri and friends becomes
extensible via APIs. For example, simply giving Siri new skills which
are basically a collection of Actions.
We are still waiting ...
>
> Let's give a test. Let's say I want to make a simple step counter.
> It hooks into my smart watch.
You simply need the counter to be documented using either OpenAPI or
RDF, that's it.
> It hooks into my phone pedometer, my treadmill, a bunch of stuff
> running at the same time.
Once the step above is completed you can integrate into any device that
has the notion of Actions and their execution.
> It then wants to store my data, and ensure that all devices can write
> to the store without conflicts. Also, importantly the store might go
> down in a DB or a pod or git, and it should just be able to come back
> up elsewhere, ditto the bot that is managing all of this.
>
> In your terminology, "it just works".
It will "Just Work" if the IoT devices understand Actions distilled from
API by way of documentation using OpenAPI or RDF (e.g., using terms from
Schema.org or other vocabs).
>
> So how close do you think we are to this, with your bots?
The "Bot" is OSDB is really about its ability to be integrated into bots
rather than being a bot itself per se.. It is a Bot capability enhancer,
so to speak.
> This is the style of thing I'd like to spec with a supra operating
> system that offers web scale semaphores. That's what binding to a
> time stamp server gives you.
>
> So, what's required to do this?
So-called Smart Agents like Siri, Alexa, Google etc.. being extensible
using a common method e.g., the OpenAPI or RDF standards. This hasn't
happened yet, unfortunately. We even assumed the API Economy folks
(typically anti RDF) would at least use OpenAPI (their own spec) but
that hasn't happened either :(
> Same stuff we've always done, link from one URI / UUID to another.
> And have the logic respect that. So, basically middleware stuff,
> bread and butter for openlink!
Yep!
Links:
[1] https://spec.openapis.org/oas/v3.1.0 -- OpenAPI
Kingsley
>
>
> Kingsley
>
>>
>>
>> Kingsley
>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 15 May 2021, 5:07 am Kingsley Idehen,
>>> <kidehen@openlinksw.com <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 5/14/21 1:07 PM, Timothy Holborn wrote:
>>>> Overall; the underlying intent; was to create complex
>>>> AUTH / Endification / Identification fabric
>>>> capabilities; that could in-turn, support complex
>>>> (hyper-private) semantics, that could only be brought
>>>> about post-technological growth; with support of
>>>> political will... i"m not sure that' going to happen
>>>> (in the western world, first or at all); but, i wanted
>>>> to make a note that the examples provided by openlink
>>>> software (virtuoso) or Project Hydra (samvera
>>>> nowadays?) didn't have enough functionality back in
>>>> 2011/2; as such, i sought to improve it, to support -
>>>> human beings, unto 'rule of law', for a moral economy,
>>>> etc...
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Timothy,
>>>
>>> To be clear:
>>>
>>> OpenLink Virtuoso <https://virtuoso.openlinksw.com> is a
>>> platform that includes a multi-protocol authentication
>>> layer. One of the many supported protocols is WebID-TLS.
>>> We also support NetID-TLS which is basically WebID-TLS
>>> decoupled from http: scheme URIs e.g., it supports ldap:
>>> scheme URIs.
>>>
>>> Authorization wise, our technology is driven 100% by RDF
>>> sentences/statements (informed by terms from relevant
>>> ontologies).
>>>
>>> I don't see limitations in RDF that aren't surmounted by
>>> the use of SPARQL as a Rules Language (like Datalog back
>>> in the day) re authorization via access controls.
>>>
>>> With the clarifications above outlined, what limitation
>>> are you speaking about?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Kingsley Idehen
>>> Founder & CEO
>>> OpenLink Software
>>> Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com <http://www.openlinksw.com>
>>> Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com <https://community.openlinksw.com>
>>> Weblogs (Blogs):
>>> Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog <https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog>
>>> Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog <https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog>
>>> Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers <https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers>
>>>
>>> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
>>> Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen <https://medium.com/@kidehen>
>>> Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/ <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/>
>>> http://kidehen.blogspot.com <http://kidehen.blogspot.com>
>>>
>>> Profile Pages:
>>> Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/ <https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/>
>>> Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen <https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen>
>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen <https://twitter.com/kidehen>
>>> Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about <https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about>
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen>
>>>
>>> Web Identities (WebID):
>>> Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i <http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i>
>>> : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this <http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen
>> Founder & CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com <http://www.openlinksw.com>
>> Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com <https://community.openlinksw.com>
>> Weblogs (Blogs):
>> Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog <https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog>
>> Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog <https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog>
>> Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers <https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers>
>>
>> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
>> Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen <https://medium.com/@kidehen>
>> Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/ <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/>
>> http://kidehen.blogspot.com <http://kidehen.blogspot.com>
>>
>> Profile Pages:
>> Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/ <https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/>
>> Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen <https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen>
>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen <https://twitter.com/kidehen>
>> Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about <https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about>
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen>
>>
>> Web Identities (WebID):
>> Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i <http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i>
>> : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this <http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this>
>>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen
> Founder & CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com <http://www.openlinksw.com>
> Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com <https://community.openlinksw.com>
> Weblogs (Blogs):
> Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog <https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog>
> Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog <https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog>
> Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers <https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers>
>
> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
> Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen <https://medium.com/@kidehen>
> Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/ <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/>
> http://kidehen.blogspot.com <http://kidehen.blogspot.com>
>
> Profile Pages:
> Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/ <https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/>
> Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen <https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen>
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen <https://twitter.com/kidehen>
> Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about <https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about>
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen>
>
> Web Identities (WebID):
> Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i <http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i>
> : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this <http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this>
>
--
Regards,
Kingsley Idehen
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com
Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com
Weblogs (Blogs):
Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen
Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
http://kidehen.blogspot.com
Profile Pages:
Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen
Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
Web Identities (WebID):
Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
: http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
Received on Monday, 17 May 2021 00:23:11 UTC