Re: (human) identity fabric (agents concepts linked)

On Sun, 16 May 2021 at 00:09, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
wrote:

> On 5/15/21 5:21 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, 15 May 2021 at 18:14, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/14/21 3:26 PM, Timothy Holborn wrote:
>>
>> Sorry, re: clarifications,
>>
>> What did it do back in ~2011/2 when I first installed it? (Vs. now?). I
>> can pull the dates, but you likely have them in your licensing server??  I
>> was trying to do a POC via building a heritage capability as an initial
>> usecase, at the time.... (supporting a Hysterical/ historical society)...
>>
>> Does it have more functionality since then?  I assumed the answer was
>> "yes" particularly given the status of "web payments" (pre credentials),
>> way back then (before I ended up on the lists, something, I didn't consider
>> would ever happen in my life, at the time)...
>>
>> Limitations linked to creating a knowledge banking framework. I started
>> concepts in 2000 ("information bank" or ibank) which progressed to
>> "knowledge banking" circa 2011/2012 after doing some work "updating" old
>> work, from mid 2010 (indigenous application started 2009/10)..
>>
>> I think you're first "dataspaces" demo was 2007???  V.interested in
>> "temporal web" / provenance solutions....
>>
>> Dignity enhancing web (vs. web slavery, or worse).
>>
>> Timothy Holborn.
>>
>>
>> Hi Timothy,
>>
>> Regarding Identity, Identification, Authentication, and Authorization
>> nothing has changed in Virtuoso.
>>
>> What has changed outside Virtuoso, via complimentary tools and services
>> that we provide are as follows:
>>
>> [1] Browser Extensions for creating Private Keys, X.509 Certificates,
>> Identifiers (WebIDs and NetIDs), and associated Profile Docs -- basically,
>> killing the headache left by predictable demise of <keygen/>
>>
>> [2] Setting up WebID-TLS + Delegation from a Browser so that the whole
>> thing "just works" and users aren't exposed to what they may perceive as
>> complexity re entity relationship type (and associated semantics)
>> triangulation
>>
>> The implications of the above are as follows, using a Chromium or Mozilla
>> browser:
>>
>> [1] You can create credentials using your browser that are stored to an
>> OS-provided Keystore (e.g., macOS Keychain) or PKCS#12 file
>>
>> [2] You can write data to a Data Space (e.g., OpenLink Data Spaces or
>> Solid Pod) subject to ACLs using WebID-TLS (with Delegation if so desired
>> i.e., kill off the UI/UX issues associated with browser restarts since
>> Person and their User Agents have distinguished, but related identity)
>>
>>
>> Tools that demonstrate these capabilities include:
>>
>> [1] YouID <http://youid.openlinksw.com/>
>>
>> [2] OpenLink Structured Data Sniffer
>>
>> <https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/openlink-structured-data/egdaiaihbdoiibopledjahjaihbmjhdj?hl=en>
>>
>> [3] OpenLink Structured Data Sniffer for Mozilla
>> <https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/openlink-structured-data-sniff/>
>>
>> As for Virtuoso, it hasn't changed bar adding support for WebID-OIDC
>> which enables compatibility with Solid Pods for read-write operations via
>> WebDAV/LDP mounting functionality etc..
>>
>> Long story short, we are still waiting for everyone to catch up :)
>>
>
> OpenLink certainly has been ahead of the curve
>
> I'm reminded of OSDB: https://osdb.openlinksw.com/osdb
>
> In particular this image:
>
> https://osdb.openlinksw.com/img/dastklohq01y.gif
>
> This is the kind of thing I envisage as a next iteration of the read write
> web
>
> The idea here being that each of those modular agents are moving in time
> to a certain rhythm
>
> I dont think we can easily make something like in that diagram today,
> aside from how the web already operates.  You visit a page, you might tweet
> it, or share it, it gets indexed by a search engine etc.  Yes, it one way,
> but alot of centralization build in there
>
> What if the web had a more temporal set of heart beats which the agents
> could be small, compact, modular, robust.  Also finite in nature due to
> block chains being finite resources.  Or as stated in paper trail some
> teams collaborating or competing in different contests.
>
> What is needed?
>
> - Tying read write agents to block chains using URIs (so standardize a URI
> scheme to hook into a block chain)
> - Ways to create fragments of a block chain that can live as mirrored
> claims (so some schema)
> - Ability to traverse chains in type, and data in time
> - Ability to save the state of the agents, as well as perhaps the logic,
> the code, the deployment (we have VCS for this)
> - Ability for state to evolve in time, so watching for changes, for
> deployments
> - Ability to identify agents (URIs) and described them (Linked Data)
> - Ability for agents to interact with one another, read write verbs (e.g.
> PUT/POST/PATCH)
>
> All this can come from leveraging existing timestamp servers, providing a
> heartbeat for multi agent read write systems, largely gluing together the
> pieces we already have
>
> Perhaps OpenLink can lead the way again here, and we can devise a spec
> together.  The aim is that gif above.  What tools can we use to get there?
>
>
> Hi Melvin,
>
> As you know, we are always happy to lead by example especially when specs
> are in place that offer critical foundation for interoperability.
> Personally, I believe that are a significant number of specs in place,
> hence our ability to quietly create the OpenLink Structured Data Bot
> Framework (OSDB).
>
> Going forward, we are currently looking at URIs and Blockchains which is
> an emerging and important frontier as you've already noted in your comments
> above.
>

Excellent!

So how advanced is the OSDB?  What can it do?  I've made a few bots before,
and perhaps you'll agree with me on this, they are nice enough proof of
concepts, but they are somewhat toothless.  They lack robustness, and need
maintenance.  Can easily be turned on or off, and very much prone to race
conditions.  After all of this, they tend not to be all that useful.

Let's give a test.  Let's say I want to make a simple step counter.  It
hooks into my smart watch.  It hooks into my phone pedometer, my treadmill,
a bunch of stuff running at the same time.  It then wants to store my data,
and ensure that all devices can write to the store without conflicts.
Also, importantly the store might go down in a DB or a pod or git, and it
should just be able to come back up elsewhere, ditto the bot that is
managing all of this.

In your terminology, "it just works".

So how close do you think we are to this, with your bots?  This is the
style of thing I'd like to spec with a supra operating system that offers
web scale semaphores.  That's what binding to a time stamp server gives you.

So, what's required to do this?  Same stuff we've always done, link from
one URI / UUID to another.  And have the logic respect that.  So, basically
middleware stuff, bread and butter for openlink!


> Kingsley
>
>
>
>> Kingsley
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 15 May 2021, 5:07 am Kingsley Idehen, <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/14/21 1:07 PM, Timothy Holborn wrote:
>>>
>>> Overall; the underlying intent; was to create complex AUTH /
>>> Endification / Identification fabric capabilities; that could in-turn,
>>> support complex (hyper-private) semantics, that could only be brought about
>>> post-technological growth; with support of political will...  i"m not sure
>>> that' going to happen (in the western world, first or at all); but,  i
>>> wanted to make a note that the examples provided by openlink software
>>> (virtuoso) or Project Hydra (samvera nowadays?) didn't have enough
>>> functionality back in 2011/2; as such, i sought to improve it, to support -
>>> human beings, unto 'rule of law', for a moral economy, etc...
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Timothy,
>>>
>>> To be clear:
>>>
>>> OpenLink Virtuoso <https://virtuoso.openlinksw.com> is a platform that
>>> includes a multi-protocol authentication layer. One of the many supported
>>> protocols is WebID-TLS. We also support NetID-TLS which is basically
>>> WebID-TLS decoupled from http: scheme URIs e.g., it supports ldap: scheme
>>> URIs.
>>>
>>> Authorization wise, our technology is driven 100% by RDF
>>> sentences/statements (informed by terms from relevant ontologies).
>>>
>>> I don't see limitations in RDF that aren't surmounted by the use of
>>> SPARQL as a Rules Language (like Datalog back in the day) re authorization
>>> via access controls.
>>>
>>> With the clarifications above outlined, what limitation are you speaking
>>> about?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Kingsley Idehen 
>>> Founder & CEO
>>> OpenLink Software
>>> Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>> Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com
>>> Weblogs (Blogs):
>>> Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
>>> Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
>>> Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
>>>
>>> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
>>> Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen
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>>>               http://kidehen.blogspot.com
>>>
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>>>
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>>>         : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen 
>> Founder & CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com
>> Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com
>> Weblogs (Blogs):
>> Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
>> Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
>> Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
>>
>> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
>> Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen
>> Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
>>               http://kidehen.blogspot.com
>>
>> Profile Pages:
>> Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
>> Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen
>> Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>
>> Web Identities (WebID):
>> Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
>>         : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
>>
>>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen 
> Founder & CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com
> Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com
> Weblogs (Blogs):
> Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
> Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
> Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
>
> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
> Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen
> Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
>               http://kidehen.blogspot.com
>
> Profile Pages:
> Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
> Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen
> Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>
> Web Identities (WebID):
> Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
>         : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
>
>