Re: preparing good minutes for working group meetings, with the meeting of 2023 March 02 as an example

On 06/03/2023 15:59, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote:
> Thanks. The draft minutes look good to me now.
>
> However, 
> https://www.w3.org/services/meeting-minutes?channel=rdf-star&num=200 
> doesn't currently have a correct listing of the topics recorded in the 
> draft minutes.

this was a bug in this script, and this has been fixed by the W3C 
webmaster (literally while we were talking about the minutes)

thanks for raising it

   pa

>   As far as I can tell it doesn't correspond to the first version of 
> the draft minutes either.  I don't know whether it has an intermediate 
> version, it caught the draft minutes in the middle of being edited, or 
> it has something else.  I don't know whether it will automatically 
> update to reflect the current draft minutes.
>
> As one of the reasons that I want accurate topics in the minutes is to 
> be able to quickly find topics by just looking at 
> https://www.w3.org/services/meeting-minutes?channel=rdf-star&num=200 I 
> would like to find out the reason for the mismatch and how to fix it.

>
> peter
>
>
>
> On 3/6/23 04:34, Pierre-Antoine Champin wrote:
>> Thanks a lot Peter.
>>
>> I have slightly modified your fixed IRC log, and pushed it online 
>> [1], and I have regenerated the minutes accordingly [2].
>>
>> [1] https://www.w3.org/2023/03/02-rdf-star-irc.txt

>> [2] https://www.w3.org/2023/03/02-rdf-star-minutes.html

>>
>> On 03/03/2023 17:00, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote:
>>> Here is the edited text version.
>>>
>>> It would be useful to figure out a way to do this editing with fewer 
>>> manual steps.
>>>
>>> peter
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/3/23 03:58, Pierre-Antoine Champin wrote:
>>>> Thanks Peter for this,
>>>>
>>>> a few comments/precisions below,
>>>>
>>>> On 02/03/2023 20:11, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote:
>>>>> TL;DR: See the attached file for modifications to today's meeting 
>>>>> log.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are some notes on how the working groups might be able to 
>>>>> have better minutes of its meetings.
>>>>>
>>>>> The meeting minutes are prepared from the IRC messages occuring 
>>>>> during the meeting.  Everyone at the meeting should be looking at 
>>>>> the working group IRC channel - #rdf-star on irc.w3.org - during 
>>>>> the meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are a number of W3C services that listen in on the channel, 
>>>>> send messages to the channel, and perform actions outside the 
>>>>> channel.  Zakim and agendabot keep track of the agenda.
>>>> Zakim also keeps track of the queue (hint, hint ;-)
>>>>> RRSAgent publishes the log of the meeting.  Commands to these 
>>>>> services are needed to ensure that the meeting log contains 
>>>>> appropriate information to generate good minutes.   Commands are 
>>>>> needed to start and end the meeting and associate a topic with it, 
>>>>> to set up and progress through the agenda, to record attendance, 
>>>>> to set up a scribe, and to generate a draft log and minutes of the 
>>>>> meeting.  (It would be really nice if most of these commands were 
>>>>> performed automatically.) There are also commands that can be used 
>>>>> perform substitutions in the minutes.
>>>> Some level of automation exists, e.g. "Zakim, start meeting" makes 
>>>> Zakim send some intructions to RRSAgent.
>>>>>
>>>>> If everything is done correctly, a draft log shows up shortly 
>>>>> after the end of the meeting and can be read by anyone (with a W3C 
>>>>> account?).  For example, the draft minuteslog of the meeting of 
>>>>> 2023 March 2 showed up at 
>>>>> https://www.w3.org/2023/03/02-rdf-star-irc. Then formatted minutes 
>>>>> showed up at https://www.w3.org/2023/03/02-rdf-star-minutes.html 
>>>>> and were summarized in 
>>>>> https://www.w3.org/services/meeting-minutes?channel=rdf-star&num=200

>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is that all this currently happens without any 
>>>>> intervention from the scribe to fix up problems in the minues.
>>>> I have tried to make these post-meeting fixes... but then I was 
>>>> absent for the last calls (this is a "giving a fish, teaching to 
>>>> fish" situation, I guess). This should indeed be considered a 
>>>> responsibility of the scribe, although I am happy to help with this 
>>>> when I'm here.
>>>>>   These problems can include scribing mistakes that were not 
>>>>> picked up by substitution commands, incorrect agenda item 
>>>>> boundaries, and missing or incorrect agenda items.   Ideally it 
>>>>> should be possible to edit 
>>>>> https://www.w3.org/2023/03/02-rdf-star-irc (or, even better, a 
>>>>> version of this page without less markup) and have the formatted 
>>>>> minutes and the summary regenerated.
>>>>>
>>>>> I downloaded https://www.w3.org/2023/03/02-rdf-star-irc and edited 
>>>>> them to remove a few minor problems.  I've attached the result to 
>>>>> this message. Hopefully this editing process will happen for 
>>>>> future working group meetings.
>>>> Thanks for this work... but could I be a pain and ask that you do 
>>>> it again on the /text/ version of the log (accessible by appending 
>>>> .txt to the URL)? I'm really not sure if I can reliably convert the 
>>>> HTMLized log to text in a way that the minute generator will accept...
>>>>>
>>>>> peter
>>>> [1] https://www.w3.org/mid/fb47d41d-1b6b-fb41-c72b-0249319fdcb8@w3.org

>