Re: preparing good minutes for working group meetings, with the meeting of 2023 March 02 as an example

Thanks to the webmain.   The scraper output looks good now.

peter


On 3/9/23 13:15, Pierre-Antoine Champin wrote:
> On 06/03/2023 15:59, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote:
>> Thanks. The draft minutes look good to me now.
>>
>> However, 
>> https://www.w3.org/services/meeting-minutes?channel=rdf-star&num=200 doesn't 
>> currently have a correct listing of the topics recorded in the draft minutes.
> 
> this was a bug in this script, and this has been fixed by the W3C webmaster 
> (literally while we were talking about the minutes)
> 
> thanks for raising it
> 
>    pa
> 
>>   As far as I can tell it doesn't correspond to the first version of the 
>> draft minutes either.  I don't know whether it has an intermediate version, 
>> it caught the draft minutes in the middle of being edited, or it has 
>> something else.  I don't know whether it will automatically update to 
>> reflect the current draft minutes.
>>
>> As one of the reasons that I want accurate topics in the minutes is to be 
>> able to quickly find topics by just looking at 
>> https://www.w3.org/services/meeting-minutes?channel=rdf-star&num=200 I would 
>> like to find out the reason for the mismatch and how to fix it.
> 
>>
>> peter
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/23 04:34, Pierre-Antoine Champin wrote:
>>> Thanks a lot Peter.
>>>
>>> I have slightly modified your fixed IRC log, and pushed it online [1], and 
>>> I have regenerated the minutes accordingly [2].
>>>
>>> [1] https://www.w3.org/2023/03/02-rdf-star-irc.txt
>>> [2] https://www.w3.org/2023/03/02-rdf-star-minutes.html
>>>
>>> On 03/03/2023 17:00, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote:
>>>> Here is the edited text version.
>>>>
>>>> It would be useful to figure out a way to do this editing with fewer 
>>>> manual steps.
>>>>
>>>> peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/3/23 03:58, Pierre-Antoine Champin wrote:
>>>>> Thanks Peter for this,
>>>>>
>>>>> a few comments/precisions below,
>>>>>
>>>>> On 02/03/2023 20:11, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote:
>>>>>> TL;DR: See the attached file for modifications to today's meeting log.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are some notes on how the working groups might be able to have 
>>>>>> better minutes of its meetings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The meeting minutes are prepared from the IRC messages occuring during 
>>>>>> the meeting.  Everyone at the meeting should be looking at the working 
>>>>>> group IRC channel - #rdf-star on irc.w3.org - during the meeting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are a number of W3C services that listen in on the channel, send 
>>>>>> messages to the channel, and perform actions outside the channel.  Zakim 
>>>>>> and agendabot keep track of the agenda.
>>>>> Zakim also keeps track of the queue (hint, hint ;-)
>>>>>> RRSAgent publishes the log of the meeting.  Commands to these services 
>>>>>> are needed to ensure that the meeting log contains appropriate 
>>>>>> information to generate good minutes.   Commands are needed to start and 
>>>>>> end the meeting and associate a topic with it, to set up and progress 
>>>>>> through the agenda, to record attendance, to set up a scribe, and to 
>>>>>> generate a draft log and minutes of the meeting.  (It would be really 
>>>>>> nice if most of these commands were performed automatically.) There are 
>>>>>> also commands that can be used perform substitutions in the minutes.
>>>>> Some level of automation exists, e.g. "Zakim, start meeting" makes Zakim 
>>>>> send some intructions to RRSAgent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If everything is done correctly, a draft log shows up shortly after the 
>>>>>> end of the meeting and can be read by anyone (with a W3C account?).  For 
>>>>>> example, the draft minuteslog of the meeting of 2023 March 2 showed up 
>>>>>> at https://www.w3.org/2023/03/02-rdf-star-irc. Then formatted minutes 
>>>>>> showed up at https://www.w3.org/2023/03/02-rdf-star-minutes.html and 
>>>>>> were summarized in 
>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/services/meeting-minutes?channel=rdf-star&num=200
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem is that all this currently happens without any intervention 
>>>>>> from the scribe to fix up problems in the minues.
>>>>> I have tried to make these post-meeting fixes... but then I was absent 
>>>>> for the last calls (this is a "giving a fish, teaching to fish" 
>>>>> situation, I guess). This should indeed be considered a responsibility of 
>>>>> the scribe, although I am happy to help with this when I'm here.
>>>>>>   These problems can include scribing mistakes that were not picked up 
>>>>>> by substitution commands, incorrect agenda item boundaries, and missing 
>>>>>> or incorrect agenda items.   Ideally it should be possible to edit 
>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/2023/03/02-rdf-star-irc (or, even better, a version 
>>>>>> of this page without less markup) and have the formatted minutes and the 
>>>>>> summary regenerated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I downloaded https://www.w3.org/2023/03/02-rdf-star-irc and edited them 
>>>>>> to remove a few minor problems.  I've attached the result to this 
>>>>>> message. Hopefully this editing process will happen for future working 
>>>>>> group meetings.
>>>>> Thanks for this work... but could I be a pain and ask that you do it 
>>>>> again on the /text/ version of the log (accessible by appending .txt to 
>>>>> the URL)? I'm really not sure if I can reliably convert the HTMLized log 
>>>>> to text in a way that the minute generator will accept...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> peter
>>>>> [1] https://www.w3.org/mid/fb47d41d-1b6b-fb41-c72b-0249319fdcb8@w3.org
>>

Received on Thursday, 9 March 2023 18:20:35 UTC