- From: Vladimir Alexiev <vladimir.alexiev@ontotext.com>
- Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 15:14:45 +0200
- To: public-rdf-star-wg@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CAMv+wg5KrRwQYzy2CVWnspxGvmRj7v08Za7CBf2pWJ9AzDS4Cg@mail.gmail.com>
I thought (or Pierre-Antoine made me to believe as he got me into this ;-) that given the CG work, the WG "only" has to update a bunch of specs treating the CG work as a "delta". But then I looked deeper, and people posted stuff: - The CG draft mostly talks of Opacity https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/cg-spec/editors_draft.html#ref-opacity , including opacity of literals (i.e. they are considered in their lexical not value space) https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/cg-spec/editors_draft.html#ref-opacity-owl-entailment and opacity under reasoning https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/cg-spec/editors_draft.html#ref-opacity-d-entailment - but includes a section on Selective Transparency https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/cg-spec/editors_draft.html#selective-ref-transparency with rdf-star:TransparencyEnablingProperty (TEP) - Over a year ago I posted a "reasoning" use case https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/200 that I now see is very naive. - Pierre-Antoine countered with examples that <<X :connectedTo Y>> cannot be transparent wrt SymmetricProperty reasoning, because consider " <<X :connectedTo Y>> :elevationGainInM 15 " - Last night I thought of the Hinterstoisser traverse (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Eiger_climbing_disaster): 4 people were able to cross this difficult place from right to left, and the belief they would not need (or would be able to) cross in the opposite direction cost them their lives. So if X and Y are the two ends of this traverse, then "X :connectedTo Y" was not symmetric in 1936, and all the way until a permanent rope was fixed on that traverse - But please understand my concern: given an inference regime, new triples are inferred. If SOME rdf-star annotations are not carried over to those triples, doesn't then rdf-star go against reasoning? - Enrico Franconi proposed a distinction between "semantic" and "modal/epidemic" predications; which if I understand correctly correspond to referentially transparent vs referentually opaque annotated triples - PFPS wrote a case about Propositional Attitudes with "should admit substitutions of equal literals, because any person considers two equal literals to be the same". - Thomas Lörtsch criticized both "TEP" and "predications" as brittle, TEP as impractical, and perhaps as putting a "fix" in the wrong place. On the question of "equal vs equivalent", which is closely related to transparency: - About literal "lexical vs value" space: - In the PFPS case above he says 42 should mean the same as 042 - But if you store a triple with integer literal 042 and try to fetch it looking for a triple pattern with integer 42, you won't find it - 042 may mean different things to a mathematician vs a C programmer (who would read it as an octal number). I hate to speculate what it may mean to a **mathematician C programmer** - About URL equality up to encoding/escaping: - I pointed out that both of these are false (<https://dbpedia.org/resource/Linköping> = < https://dbpedia.org/resource/Link%C3%B6ping> as ?foo) (sameTerm(<https://dbpedia.org/resource/Linköping>, < https://dbpedia.org/resource/Link%C3%B6ping>) as ?bar) - Andy countered with "That's an encoding problem" and Olaf with "But this has nothing to do with RDF-star per se" How about prefixes and CURIEs? I want to declare that the statements below are false for eternity, for any "A, B, pred", because using such ugly prefixes is a sloppiness I would never allow myself: <<:A ns0:pred :B>> :said :Vladimir <<:A j.0:pred :B>> :said :Vladimir I know that prefixes are expanded, and https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/cg-spec/2021-12-17.html#expand-syntax-forms talks of similar things. But why can't I have a semantics that allows me to discuss rdf-star prefixes? How about syntactically invalid triples? Why can't I record something like this (that malformed URL is almost a real example from some company datasets): << <htpz:\\example,com/my new great site> a schema:WebSite >> :judgement "Syntactically invalid". I can capture the invalid URL using datatype xsd:AnyURI: << "htpz:\\example,com/my new great site"^^xsd:AnyURI a schema:WebSite >> :judgement "Syntactically invalid". But it's still nogood because literals cannot be in subject position: why not? --- All of the above makes me think that there isn't one kind of transparency but MULTIPLE. Maybe we need to think of some "layers of transparency". This strongly smells of Modal Logic (possible worlds)... Sorry to say, I don't have any good idea how to describe these layers or allocate rdf-star triples to them. Andy and Olaf are right that URL equality up to encoding/escaping "has nothing to do with RDF-star per se". But because rdf-star allows us to talk about "talking about triples", it made us think about some of these issues. (Looking back at some of the issues, I wonder how we've used normal RDF for so many years with any measure of success :-) But we shouldn't forget the original purpose of rdf-star: to make it as easy to attach data to triples as it is in LPG. I agree with Thomas that the "90% use" (or what they call the "main path" in use case diagrams) of rdf-star is to record extra data about triples, not to deal with exceptional/controversial/sensational/prove-it-in-court kind of triples. So I think we should look for ways to simplify our treatment, not to complicate it. Cheers! -- Vladimir Alexiev, PhD, PMP Chief Data Architect Sirma AI, trading as Ontotext: https://www.ontotext.com, LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/company-beta/208070>, Twitter <https://twitter.com/ontotext>, Email: vladimir.alexiev@ontotext.com, Mobile: +359 888 568 132, SMS: 359888568132@sms.mtel.net Calendar: https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=vladimir.alexiev@ontotext.com Publications and CV: https://github.com/VladimirAlexiev/my
Received on Friday, 17 February 2023 13:15:10 UTC