W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org > March 2008

RE: Community outreach with a cheat sheet!

From: David Peterson <david@squishyfish.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 03:33:56 +1000
To: "'Mark Birbeck'" <mark.birbeck@x-port.net>, "'Shane McCarron'" <shane@aptest.com>
Cc: "'Ben Adida'" <ben@adida.net>, "'Ivan Herman'" <ivan@w3.org>, "'W3C RDFa task force'" <public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org>
Message-ID: <00a001c88e9e$69558b50$3c00a1f0$@com>

Hello Mark and all,

My original intent might not have been clear and has definitely gone off
track. 

There are groups who are investing time and effort to create a microformat
[1], but they are now faced with the very real dilemma (please read the
BibleRef folks own words [2]) that Yahoo! will not extract their content at
launch and indeed might never extract it. There are roughly 98 microformats
and producing an extractor for all of them isn't something that Yahoo! is
probably too keen to do.

They and others will be looking for direction on where to go next; RDFa
fills the bill quite nicely. This is where I want to come in and where I
want the article to present.

The other point I want to make that RDFa offers is that of the URL being
tied to individual instances, types, kinds :) inside the page. This leads to
the wonderful world of linked data. Microformats can't touch that with a ten
foot pole. This is another reason that creating a mapping will take the good
work they have done and bring it to the linked data Web.

Cheers,

David

[1] Bibleref Markup
http://www.semanticbible.com/bibleref/bibleref-overview.html

[2] Yahoo!, Bibleref, and RDFa
http://www.openbible.info/blog/2008/03/yahoo-bibleref-and-rdfa/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf-request@w3.org [mailto:public-rdf-in-
> xhtml-tf-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Mark Birbeck
> Sent: Wednesday, 26 March 2008 2:49 AM
> To: Shane McCarron
> Cc: David Peterson; Ben Adida; Ivan Herman; W3C RDFa task force
> Subject: Re: Community outreach with a cheat sheet!
> 
> 
> Shane...everyone,
> 
> We have to be a little careful here, though. Microformats were
> supposed to be about creating small sets of rules that could be
> applied by authors to their documents, to add semantics. The *actual*
> semantics were invariably gained by looking elsewhere, the so-called
> 'paving the cow-path' approach.
> 
> So hCard came from vCard...and we disappear up our own semantic
> worm-holes if we now define a namespace for hCard as a vocabulary, to
> be used in RDFa!
> 
> My take on this is that we have to unroll Microformats a little, and
> perhaps look at what it was intended to do in the first place--go back
> to first principles. It was not intended as a way to create
> vocabularies, but rather a way to easily document compact formats that
> authors could easily grok.
> 
> I blogged over the weekend along these lines [1], showing how the
> rel-license microformat is *exactly* the same as using @rel="license"
> in RDFa, and I think that would be a far more productive area to look
> at; how far can we go in documenting and teaching people about 'micro'
> formats, or small bite-size pieces of RDFa.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mark
> 
> [1] <http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/2008/03/so-how-about-using-rdfa-
> in-microformats.html>
> 
> On 25/03/2008, Shane McCarron <shane@aptest.com> wrote:
> >
> >  I think the right thing to do would be to help the owners of those
> > vocabularies define RDFa versions.  However, given that there is no
> rule
> > about how you "define" an RDFa vocabulary, I think it is safe to say
> URL
> > http://mumblefoo maps to hCard as defined HERE.  To create semantics
> in RDFa
> > documents for hCard, define a prefix and go.  For example:
> >
> >  <html xmlns:hc="http://mumblefoo"
> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
> >  ...
> >  <span rel="hc:tel">
> >     <spal rel="hc:type">home</span>
> >     <span rel="hc:value">+1.763.555.1212</span>
> >  </span>
> >
> >  I mean - doesn't this just work?  (tm)
> >
> >
> >  David Peterson wrote:
> >  Hello Ben,
> >
> > That is what was what I had intended. I did not want to re-invent
> anything,
> > just wanted to highlight a XFN to RDFa mapping. I was giving an
> example from
> > the XFN microformat [1].
> >
> > -----------------
> > XFN 1.1
> > rel="contact"
> > rel="acquaintance"
> > rel="friend"
> > rel="met"
> > rel="co-worker"
> > - snip -
> > -----------------
> >
> > My example URI (http://rdfa.info/2008/03/xfn#co-worker)
> > probably stank, but that is why I am bringing it up here so I (we)
> can get
> > started.
> >
> > The main reason I want to kick this off is for an article I am
> writing for
> > SitePoint on how microformatters can benefit from RDFa whilst using
> what is
> > familiar. Yahoo! will only be indexing 5 of the 98 or so and FireFox
> 3
> > parses the same 5 I believe. So, when SearchMonkey kicks in there
> will be a
> > lot of unhappy campers -- that is until we Semantify 'Em!
> >
> > So maybe XFN wasn't the best example to pick. Yahoo! will extract:
> hCard,
> > hCalendar, hReview, hAtom, and XFN. What would be a better vocab?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > David
> >
> > [1] http://gmpg.org/xfn/11
> >
> >
> >
> >  -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Adida [mailto:ben@adida.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 26 March 2008 1:25 AM
> > To: David Peterson
> > Cc: 'Shane McCarron'; 'Ivan Herman'; 'W3C RDFa task force'
> > Subject: Re: Community outreach with a cheat sheet!
> >
> > David Peterson wrote:
> >
> >
> >  http://rdfa.info/2008/03/xfn#co-worker
> >
> >  I'd prefer if we worked on re-using existing vocabularies rather
> than
> > re-inventing them wholesale :) But, of course, the beauty of RDFa is
> > that I have no say :)
> >
> > -Ben
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  --
> > Shane P. McCarron Phone: +1 763 786-8160 x120
> > Managing Director Fax: +1 763 786-8180
> > ApTest Minnesota Inet: shane@aptest.com
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
>   Mark Birbeck
> 
>   mark.birbeck@x-port.net | +44 (0) 20 7689 9232
>   http://www.x-port.net | http://internet-apps.blogspot.com
> 
>   x-port.net Ltd. is registered in England and Wales, number 03730711
>   The registered office is at:
> 
>     2nd Floor
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Received on Tuesday, 25 March 2008 17:34:46 UTC

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