- From: Birte Glimm <birte.glimm@comlab.ox.ac.uk>
- Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 12:20:24 +0100
- To: Axel Polleres <axel.polleres@deri.org>
- Cc: Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, Chimezie Ogbuji <ogbujic@ccf.org>, W3C SPARQL WG <public-rdf-dawg@w3.org>
That was my understanding too, i.e., we can also just have an informative section (as RIF) that explains that by using only strongly safe core rules, you get a nice guarantee for finiteness. Birte On 18 May 2010 09:44, Axel Polleres <axel.polleres@deri.org> wrote: >> > > Ok, I'll leave that one as is until there is further input >> > >> > I leave that to Axel and Sandro >> >> Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to follow this for a while. How >> urgent is this? Things for me relax a little in two weeks, I think. >> >> Offhand, I'm unpleasantly surprised that anyone would want to name a >> subset of Core. Subsetting Core is bad for interoperability. But maybe >> there are issues I'm missing. > > If we don't require finiteness any longer, am not sure whether we need an own URI for strongly safe. > We may just want to mention in the text that for strongly safe rulesets consequences will > always be finite without the need for a separate entailment regime. > > Axel > > > > On 18 May 2010, at 04:54, Sandro Hawke wrote: > >> >> > Hey Chime, >> > >> > Quick reply. Unfortunately, I cannot be on the call; I am on my way to = >> > Sweden... >> > >> > On May 17, 2010, at 21:20 , Chimezie Ogbuji wrote: >> > >> > > Thanks for the review Ivan, see responses below for those comments = >> > referring >> > > to my sections. >> > >=20 >> > > On 5/12/10 11:04 AM, "Ivan Herman" <ivan@w3.org> wrote: >> > >> ----------- >> > >> Section 7 >> > >>=20 >> > >> At the moment, the http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/ vocabulary does = >> > _not_ >> > >> include the >> > >>=20 >> > >> http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/RIF-RDF-Strongly-Safe-Core >> > >>=20 >> > >> but only >> > >>=20 >> > >> http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/RIF >> > >>=20 >> > >> It is easy for me to add this additional URI, but I have to be sure = >> > this is >> > >> o.k. with the RIF group, and whether it is the correct name. And, if = >> > I add >> > >> this, shouldn't I add others? Which ones? Axel, Sandro, can you help = >> > on that? >> > >=20 >> > > Ok, I'll leave that one as is until there is further input >> > >> > I leave that to Axel and Sandro >> >> Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to follow this for a while. How >> urgent is this? Things for me relax a little in two weeks, I think. >> >> Offhand, I'm unpleasantly surprised that anyone would want to name a >> subset of Core. Subsetting Core is bad for interoperability. But maybe >> there are issues I'm missing. >> >> > >=20 >> > >> ----------- >> > >> Section 7.1 >> > >>=20 >> > >> I think we have a pending issue as for which namespace rif:imports is = >> > in. The >> > >> current text does not specifies this at all. There should be a = >> > namespace >> > >> document, too. >> > >=20 >> > > I have explicitly designated the following namespace URI: >> > >=20 >> > >=20 >> > > http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/RDF-RIF-imports >> > >=20 >> > > I'm not sure who is responsible for setting up the namespace document, = >> > but >> > > text from this section should be sufficient for the body of such a = >> > document. >> > >> > I am the one maintaining these and Sandro can also do it. That being = >> > said, I am not sure that is the right place to do this. The = >> > .../entailment/XXX URI-s are used designate specific entailment regimes, = >> > and this is something different. >> > >> > Ideally, this predicate should be in the rif namespace, but that would = >> > require, I presume, an agreement from the RIF group (that again falls = >> > into the domain of Sandro and Axel, I am afraid). We may have to mint a = >> > URI of its own, which looks a bit silly.... >> >> I don't see the rif namespace as a problem, if that's where it makes >> sense to put it (whatever it is). Either the RIF WG is okay with the >> design, in which case it grants permission, or it isn't okay with the >> design, in which case there are much bigger problems than the namespace. >> Of course, the rif namespace is an XML namespace, not (yet) and RDF >> namespace, but I'm hoping to make it both with the RIF-in-RDF encoding. >> >> -- Sandro >> >> > >=20 >> > >> ----------- >> > >> Section 7.1 >> > >> In other words, I cannot dynamically assign rule sets to the dataset. = >> > For a >> > >> user this looks like a serious restriction because that means that = >> > the dataset >> > >> provider dictates the rule sets it has, rather than the user. >> > >>=20 >> > >> Isn't it possible to say that the rdf:imports can also be part of the = >> > BGP and >> > >> has, well, the same semantics of referring to a rule set? >> > >>=20 >> > >> Actually, the same question applies to various OWL regimes, too. Can = >> > I have a >> > >> [] owl:imports <...> in my BGP? Should we allow this? >> > >=20 >> > > Per the thread with you and Birte on this, I have not done anything = >> > since a >> > > more fundamental change to the SPARQL syntax would be needed to = >> > facilitate >> > > query-time specification of a ruleset to use (and this was ruled out = >> > early). >> > >> > Well... indeed, Birte convinced me that the current setup is actually = >> > fine, and an import can be done via an extra graph that uses the import. = >> > That being said, I do not understand your last remark: with the = >> > semantics of rif:import one _can_ specify the rule set dynamically at = >> > query time (provided the endpoint is capable of reading an RDF file at = >> > an external URI). And that is the right thing to have! >> > >> > [snip] >> > >=20 >> > >> ----------- >> > >> I wonder whether it would be good adding some additional (informal) = >> > text in >> > >> the RIF related text that makes it clear that, although we define the >> > >> entailment regime only in terms of the RIF-Simple, it is possible to = >> > define >> > >> RIF Core rule sets that describe RDFS and even OWL-RL. Ie, with = >> > suitable rule >> > >> sets, this entailment is much more powerful than it looks at first. A >> > >> reference to >> > >>=20 >> > >> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-rif-owl-rl-20100511/ >> > >>=20 >> > >> and to ter Horst's paper (which, actually, still appears in the = >> > reference >> > >> list) would be useful. >> > >=20 >> > > I've added a new section: 7.2 Custom Rulesets for Common Vocabulary >> > > Interpretations (Informative) that discusses this. >> > >> > Yep! Thanks >> > >> > Ivan >> > >> > >> > >=20 >> > > -- Chime >> > >=20 >> > >=20 >> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= >> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> > >=20 >> > > P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail >> > >=20 >> > > Cleveland Clinic is ranked one of the top hospitals >> > > in America by U.S.News & World Report (2009). =20 >> > > Visit us online at http://www.clevelandclinic.org for >> > > a complete listing of our services, staff and >> > > locations. >> > >=20 >> > >=20 >> > > Confidentiality Note: This message is intended for use >> > > only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed >> > > and may contain information that is privileged, >> > > confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable >> > > law. 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Thank you. >> > >=20 >> > >> > >> > ---- >> > Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead >> > Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ >> > mobile: +31-641044153 >> > PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html >> > FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --Apple-Mail-20--508810017 >> > Content-Disposition: attachment; >> > filename=smime.p7s >> > Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; >> > name=smime.p7s >> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 >> > >> > MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIL8TCCAtAw >> > ggI5oAMCAQICEEqSoKsbh13PhKdeqPhU+AowDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx >> > JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ >> > ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA5MDkxODE2MDgwOVoXDTEwMDkxODE2MDgw >> > OVowPTEfMB0GA1UEAxMWVGhhd3RlIEZyZWVtYWlsIE1lbWJlcjEaMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYLaXZh >> > bkB3My5vcmcwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQC38QtNc0tsiH1iMLGaGsik >> > 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Received on Tuesday, 18 May 2010 11:28:17 UTC