- From: Dave Beckett <dave.beckett@bristol.ac.uk>
- Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:11:18 +0000
- To: RDF Data Access Working Group <public-rdf-dawg@w3.org>
Minutes of RDF DAWG teleconference 2004-11-09 for review Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0244.html IRC log: (404 at this time) http://www.w3.org/2004/11/09-dawg-irc Scribe: Dave Beckett 1. Convene, take roll, review agenda Present: Tom Adams Dave Beckett Kendall Clark Dan Connolly Jos De Roo Farrukh Najmi Eric Prud'hommeaux (irc) Simon Raboczi Janne Saarela Andy Seaborne Regrets: Steve Harris Yoshio Fukushige Howard Katz Alberto Reggiori Hiroyuki Sato RESOLVED: to accept 2004-11-02 telcon minutes http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0210.html as a true record Next meeting 2004-11-06 14:30 UTC Regrets: Dan Connolly (16 Nov, 23 Nov, 30 Nov) Chair: Eric Prud'hommeaux Scribe: SimonR ACTION DanC: owner of issue 'yes or no questions' (pending protocol doc) CONTINUED ACTION AlbertoR: owns issue 'DESCRIBE' CONTINUED ACTION: SteveH is willing to adapt his testing infrastructure to generate input/output RDF/XML and typed nodes into manifest file CONTINUED 2. Use Cases ACTION EricP to ask KendallC to put X509 policy use case into UC&R DONE Kendall to look at EricP's resulting email in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0205.html and consider what to add, noting not much excitement seen on the telcon for the use case. 3. FTF 4 19-20 January 2005 Espoo, Finland (Hosted by Profium) Janne has given some directions http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0211.html and some further advice email will follow. Note that the weather can be 0C to -20C so bring a good coat. Slight preference for hotels in Helsinki if you want to walk around and see things ACTION DanC: Make a dawg f2f4 registration form 4. ftf 5 ACTION EricP: find logistics re F2F5 at tech plenary in Boston March 28 Feb - 4 Mar (2 days). Some WG preference to Mon/Tue of that week. CONTINUED See some progress: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0185.html http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0144.html Note WBS form on tech plenary scheduling nightmare http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34786/TP05prep/results and noted clashes with swig/dawg (many people, chairs) swbpdwg/dawg (TomA, JosD, PatH). TomA happy with overlap as Tucana's Dave Wood is chair of SWBPD. Next to F2F5 are opportunities for promotion and demos - at the SWIG meeting and the plenary day (Wed). 5. Protocol, Interoperability Demonstration Services ACTION KendallC: write a protocol document draft DONE See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0255.html pointing at http://monkeyfist.com/kendall/sparql-protocol/ Kendall introduced this as providing multiple methods to try to make it possible to get consensus on different methods without affecting the others. It reflects things that the mindlab wants to do with RDF queries. There is an abstract protocol (section 5) and a concrete one (section 7) using http with examples for all the methods, see http://monkeyfist.com/kendall/sparql-protocol/#http There were a few questions such as what was [GRAPH_ID] in http URI for. Kendall described it was standing in for some http parameter, not actually expecting to use that particular word, or hardcode query parameters. ACTION KendallC: expose our walking tour data to SPARQL querying clients ETA before F2F4 CONTINUED ACTION TomA, JanneS: read the protocol draft at http://monkeyfist.com/kendall/sparql-protocol/ and email a review to the WG before the next telcon 2004-11-09 6. SPARQL update, issues Brief discussion of progress in recent SPARQL query draft http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/ v1.128 2004/11/08 15:27:14 ACTION EricP: supply definitions for SELECT (vars ordered or not?) ala http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0151.html CONTINUED ACTION PatH review SPARQL def'ns post-publication CONTINUED ACTION: AndyS to write a test cases which use ? and $ in the same query CONTINUED DanC asked for somebody else to help on reading and responding to the public-rdf-dawg-comments list at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/ to reduce the burden on the WD editors. Tom Adams volunteered and got the job to read the list, respond and pass on things to/from the WG and the comments list. Chairs may poke him to respond if necessary. 5. SOURCE Issue ACTION DaveB: Update the source section 9, add more formal links, update the examples, try to think about extra constraints as EricP proposed (SOURCE ?s and ?s only in in SELECT). Look at various people's source test cases. DONE See proposal in: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0241.html some people had read it, more readers, questions and discussion needed. ACTION JanneS: review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0256.html and check what happens when no source support is implemented JosD has an issue with the proposal when the source variable is unbound. DaveB found it hard to grok over the phone and requested it go to email. Suggestion to change Query Graph to Data Graph or possibly Federated Graph, (something) Set. DaveB prefered Data Graph. ACTION DaveB: update the dawg test repository to record or amend tests to correspond to the http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004OctDec/0241.html proposal ACTION DanC: suggest formal definitions for SOURCE 6. Disjunction issue Simon described his progress with thinking about disjunction and (nested or not) optionals and is finding problems with getting a handle on the problem. Especially with NULLS and LEFT OUTER JOIN and distinguishing nulls generated by disjunction versus those caused by the variable not being bound, generated by optionals. Is there a difference? Or a problem? Unsure whether optionals can be used to implement disjunction completely. Quoting Simon from IRC: The main suspicion I have is that the nulls generated by the left outer join sort-of-mean "there are no values for this variable", whereas the "unconstrained" markers generated by disjunction mean almost exactly the opposite, that the variable could take any value without invalidating the proposition. ACTION SimonR: explain how much of disjuction can be done with optionals, nested or otherwise. Point to references, problems with LEFT OUTER JOIN in the literature. ACTION SteveH: own (i.e. propose resolution to) disjunction issue CONTINUED ACTION SteveH: owns issue 'nested optionals' CONTINUED 7. Next SPARQL WD: timing, reviewers Discussion of the current timetable for drafts - a new WD in December, before F2F4 in late January 2005. Then CR early 2005. Farrukh/Sun said around April 2005 would be good for a CR with his EbXML project. Tom/Tucana also have a scheduled product release December 2004 that would fit well with a CR in January 2005 area, a CR in April 2005 would fit. DaveB, AndyS, SteveH, EricP are potentially doing a WWW2005 tutorial on SPARQL in May 2005, Japan. ACTION DanC: notify SemWeb CG of EbXML possible sync point in April Andy warned that items in the first WD that had warnings they might be dropped, are more likely to be dropped now if no champion appears. One example given was UNSAID, AndyS at this time didn't see a clear requirement for it. DanC will track any such potential decision by a WG issue. ADJOURNED 15:46 UTC
Received on Wednesday, 10 November 2004 15:13:27 UTC