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Re: PROV-ISSUE-395: Rename hadOriginalSource to "originatedFrom"? [prov-dm]

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2012 13:19:02 +0100
Message-ID: <EMEW3|cc477df7a1ccb1815766a71eb96faa7co55DJ608L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|4FCF4AB6.5030707@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Jim McCusker <mccusker@gmail.com>
CC: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>, Provenance Working Group WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Hi all,
Changes implemented.
I am closing this issue, pending your review.
Luc

On 06/06/2012 12:56 PM, Jim McCusker wrote:
>
> Yes, hadPrimarySource.
>
> On Jun 6, 2012 7:26 AM, "Paul Groth" <p.t.groth@vu.nl 
> <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>> wrote:
>
>     I believe that the consensus is to rename it to PrimarySource.
>
>     hasPrimarySource
>
>     Is that correct, Jim, Tim.
>
>     Thanks
>     Paul
>
>     On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Luc Moreau
>     <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk <mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>     > Hi Paul, Tim, Jim, all,
>     >
>     > What's the consensus on this? What definition and name do you
>     want to
>     > adopt for this
>     > relation?
>     >
>     > Luc
>     >
>     > On 06/05/2012 08:35 PM, Paul Groth wrote:
>     >> Yeah, this is what I was thinking as well.
>     >>
>     >> Paul
>     >>
>     >> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Jim McCusker<mccusj@rpi.edu
>     <mailto:mccusj@rpi.edu>>  wrote:
>     >>
>     >>> hadPrimarySource is much clearer. Anyone who has paid
>     attention in history
>     >>> class (at least in the US) should be familiar with the idea of
>     primary
>     >>> sources, so I think it's probably the most useful term.
>     >>>
>     >>> Jim
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Paul Groth<p.t.groth@vu.nl
>     <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>>  wrote:
>     >>>
>     >>>> Hi TIm,
>     >>>>
>     >>>> I think i'm bending your way. If other's think primary source
>     is more
>     >>>> intelligible then I'm happy to change this.
>     >>>> I think Luc also finally "got' this relation when I pointed
>     him to the
>     >>>> wiki page so maybe that says something as well.
>     >>>>
>     >>>> cheers
>     >>>> Paul
>     >>>>
>     >>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Timothy Lebo<lebot@rpi.edu
>     <mailto:lebot@rpi.edu>>  wrote:
>     >>>>
>     >>>>> On Jun 5, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Paul Groth wrote:
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>> This is the same intent as the google definition of
>     original source in
>     >>>>>> my reading of their post. I would consider  primary source
>     but think
>     >>>>>> original source has some history of usage on the web already.
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>> Where on the web is "original source" used?
>     >>>>> Blogging?
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> Anywhere else?
>     >>>>> I'm not a blogger, and I haven't seen "original source".
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> Thanks,
>     >>>>> Tim
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>> cheers
>     >>>>>> Paul
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Timothy Lebo<lebot@rpi.edu
>     <mailto:lebot@rpi.edu>>  wrote:
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> On Jun 5, 2012, at 8:48 AM, Paul Groth wrote:
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>> Yeah, orginalsource had the meaning
>     >>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_source
>     >>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> Oh, did we shift from the meaning taken from that Google
>     Blog about
>     >>>>>>> journalism ?
>     >>>>>>> (which, I can't find in any public draft, so I guess "yes")
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> I like the description at
>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_source
>     >>>>>>>      __much__ better,
>     >>>>>>> I had no idea that that was the intent of hadOriginalSource.
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> Since wikipedia choose the name "primary", perhaps we
>     should too.
>     >>>>>>> I would be in favor of renaming:
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>       hadOriginalSource ->  hadPrimarySource
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> Now that I understand the concept, I'd rather this than the
>     >>>>>>> "originatedFrom", which is drastically different.
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>> To me a "big change" now is changing stuff that has been
>     in the spec
>     >>>>>>>> in a number of drafts. I won't really argue hard but I
>     want to be
>     >>>>>>>> convinced that this is worth it.
>     >>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> That's reasonable. But perhaps it indicates that the
>     bigger problems
>     >>>>>>> are out of the way now :-)
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> -Tim
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>> Paul
>     >>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Timothy
>     Lebo<lebot@rpi.edu <mailto:lebot@rpi.edu>>  wrote:
>     >>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>> On Jun 5, 2012, at 2:54 AM, Paul Groth wrote:
>     >>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>> Hi Tim,
>     >>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>> I don't think hadOriginalSource and originatedFrom
>     convey the same
>     >>>>>>>>>> meaning.
>     >>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>> I think that they are pretty close in meaning, and one
>     follows the
>     >>>>>>>>> naming style more appropriately.
>     >>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>> I am also a bit concerned about doing these big renames of
>     >>>>>>>>>> things.
>     >>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>> How do you measure "big"?
>     >>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>> -Tim
>     >>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>> cheers
>     >>>>>>>>>> Paul
>     >>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 4:58 AM, Provenance Working
>     Group Issue
>     >>>>>>>>>> Tracker
>     >>>>>>>>>> <sysbot+tracker@w3.org
>     <mailto:sysbot%2Btracker@w3.org>>  wrote:
>     >>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>> PROV-ISSUE-395: Rename hadOriginalSource to
>     "originatedFrom"?
>     >>>>>>>>>>> [prov-dm]
>     >>>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/395
>     >>>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>> Raised by: Timothy Lebo
>     >>>>>>>>>>> On product: prov-dm
>     >>>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>> DM editors,
>     >>>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>> Could hadOriginalSource be renamed to "originatedFrom" ?
>     >>>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>> I think it follows the "wasDerivedFrom" naming a
>     little more
>     >>>>>>>>>>> closely, and avoids an exception to PROV-O's "has"
>     naming convention.
>     >>>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>> Then, perhaps the Involvement "Source" could be
>     renamed "Origin"?
>     >>>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>> And qualifiedSource would become qualifiedOrigin.
>     >>>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>> I think that this naming is a little more natural.
>     >>>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>> (yes, this is phrased in terms of PROV-O, but an issue
>     on DM;
>     >>>>>>>>>>> probably best product would be mapping prov-dm<->  
>      prov-o...)
>     >>>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>     >>>>>>>>>>> Tim
>     >>>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>> --
>     >>>>>>>>>> --
>     >>>>>>>>>> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>)
>     >>>>>>>>>> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
>     <http://www.few.vu.nl/%7Epgroth/>
>     >>>>>>>>>> Assistant Professor
>     >>>>>>>>>> Knowledge Representation&  Reasoning Group
>     >>>>>>>>>> Artificial Intelligence Section
>     >>>>>>>>>> Department of Computer Science
>     >>>>>>>>>> VU University Amsterdam
>     >>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>> --
>     >>>>>>>> --
>     >>>>>>>> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>)
>     >>>>>>>> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
>     <http://www.few.vu.nl/%7Epgroth/>
>     >>>>>>>> Assistant Professor
>     >>>>>>>> Knowledge Representation&  Reasoning Group
>     >>>>>>>> Artificial Intelligence Section
>     >>>>>>>> Department of Computer Science
>     >>>>>>>> VU University Amsterdam
>     >>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> --
>     >>>>>> --
>     >>>>>> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>)
>     >>>>>> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/ <http://www.few.vu.nl/%7Epgroth/>
>     >>>>>> Assistant Professor
>     >>>>>> Knowledge Representation&  Reasoning Group
>     >>>>>> Artificial Intelligence Section
>     >>>>>> Department of Computer Science
>     >>>>>> VU University Amsterdam
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>> --
>     >>>> --
>     >>>> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>)
>     >>>> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/ <http://www.few.vu.nl/%7Epgroth/>
>     >>>> Assistant Professor
>     >>>> Knowledge Representation&  Reasoning Group
>     >>>> Artificial Intelligence Section
>     >>>> Department of Computer Science
>     >>>> VU University Amsterdam
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>> --
>     >>> Jim McCusker
>     >>> Programmer Analyst
>     >>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
>     >>> Yale School of Medicine
>     >>> james.mccusker@yale.edu <mailto:james.mccusker@yale.edu> |
>     (203) 785-6330 <tel:%28203%29%20785-6330>
>     >>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
>     >>>
>     >>> PhD Student
>     >>> Tetherless World Constellation
>     >>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
>     >>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu <mailto:mccusj@cs.rpi.edu>
>     >>> http://tw.rpi.edu
>     >>>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >
>     > --
>     > Professor Luc Moreau
>     > Electronics and Computer Science   tel: +44 23 8059 4487
>     <tel:%2B44%2023%208059%204487>
>     > University of Southampton          fax: +44 23 8059 2865
>     <tel:%2B44%2023%208059%202865>
>     > Southampton SO17 1BJ               email:
>     l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk <mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>     > United Kingdom http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>     <http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/%7Elavm>
>     >
>     >
>
>
>
>     --
>     --
>     Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>)
>     http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/ <http://www.few.vu.nl/%7Epgroth/>
>     Assistant Professor
>     Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
>     Artificial Intelligence Section
>     Department of Computer Science
>     VU University Amsterdam
>

-- 
Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Wednesday, 6 June 2012 12:19:40 UTC

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